XL vs. Smooth Bore vs. Jaguar

[leehwd]

Hello everyone,

Which do you recommend for alto sax? I play soprano on XL (#8), and I am VERY happy with it. I just bought a new alto. Can anyone suggest the mouthpiece to go with?

Thank you.
Howard

[Brian]

Lee, in general terms the XL is brighter and thinner than the smoothbore. The S'bore is clean and relatively pure (with respect to gritty edge) but bright and powerful. The jaquar responds, to me, similarly to the S'bore but plays with more edge ... definately more complex overtones. I believe the Jaguar has a more compact sound to it also.

My personal fav alto piece for solo work is a smoothbore #9 with a deeply seated baffle ... just enough to increse the response and airspeed to get an extra touch of edge and power. I also use a Jaquar #9 when Im in the mood and acoustics demand ... and a Jody Jazz #9 with spoiler for traditional straight ahead jazz.

[colibri]

I would go for an XL.
It's easy on chops no matter how big your facing is, and it's bright and focus. It doesn't have the edge of, let's say a Jumbo Java, but it's every bit as bright. Put the spoiler in you'll have an unbearably bright paint peeling sound, IMO brighter than a Dukoff.

[MM]

From the pictures these pieces look like a Berg Larsen. I wondered how they compare.

[colibri]

Runyon doesn't have the same quality control problem that Berg Larsen has. The XL shapes like a Berg, sounds like a Berg but is easier on the chops.

[super20dan]

i also concur that the x.l. is easy on the chops. of all the extreme alto mpcs i have tried this ones is eaisest to play

[connman]

What about volume on the Jag.?

[JL]

connman, I don't know how the Jag compares to other Runyons, but I got one recently and since I play R&B, volume is an issue for me. Also, I had been playing a Sugal SGII, which is a very loud mpc. After playing the Jag for a few days, I found it has all the vnlume I need, plus it has nice rich sound. The horn may be an issue, though. On my Mk VI tenor, the Jag has plenty of power (it really wailed on a Silversonic I tried recently). On my Aristocrat, the Sugal does the job better. I hear rumors they are making a spoiler for the Jaguar, but don't know if it's really necessary.

[JL]

OK, I take part of that back. Just tried the Jaguar on my Aristocrat and it has a huge, rich, cutting sound....plenty of volume! But it would be interesting to hear from folks who have compared the Jag to other Runyons. Cheers.

[Paul Coats]

The Jaguar has a similar tone to the Custom series. But with the Jag, the extreme ends of range are easier, and the tone is more even from register to register, more than any other mouthpiece of any brand I have played.

The XL and Smoothbore are thinner, and brighter in comparison to the Jaguar.

The Quantum Metal has a similar depth to the tone, but is brighter. The Quantum Custom series (plastic version) is much brighter, edgier.

To me, the Jaguar is the perfect big band sax section piece. It has the projection needed for solos, but you can back off and blend. The great low end makes it the perfect 2nd alto/2nd tenor piece, but the full voiced top end make it good for the 1st alto/1st tenor players, too.

Altissimo is easy, controlled, rich in tone.

There are just no negatives with this piece.

[MM]

Paul C,

"The Quantum metal has a similar depth of the tone, but is brighter." I can't quite reconcile the depth vs brightness as these seem opposite. Can you clarify?

Also, if the Jaguar is the perfect big band piece, is it not so good for combo work? I like some warmth to the sound for combo, something I've only gotten from a round chamber mouthpiece. But I'll admit to not trying a Jaguar or a Jody Jazz ESP for that matter. Can anyone say how the ESP compares to the Jaguar or any others in the Runyon line.

Thanks.

[JL]

Both the Jaguar and the ESP would work great for playing in a combo. The Jaguar has a plenty warm tone, but can cut through when necessary. I tried the ESP a while back. I think the Jaguar might have a bit more volume, and the ESP is a bit darker, but I didn't compare them "back to back." Both are excellent mpcs. One thing they share in common is ease of playing and great response and control from top to bottom of the horn.

I have a Quantum coming soon so I'll report how it compares to the Jag.

[Santee>]

I tried an XL and Jaguar alto yesterday...the XL had a spoiler (tried it with and w/o the spoiler). I'm a huge fan of the soprano mouthpieces Runyon makes...just tried a custom w/spoiler and it's sooooo amazing! (I also tried a metal XL soprano and it gave me more cut and buzz than the XL actually!). I think that if you're looking for a Kenny Garrett sound, the buzzy sound w/a smaller chamber effect, the XL will do the job perfectly due to it's Smooth Bore design...making the chamber smaller. It sounds kinda compace due to that. The Jaguar had a very deep, full, big, hollow sound and barely any buzz or edge unless you really pushed it. It reminds me of a metal Link, but with a medium chamber, not a large chamber. So it's got a very big sound, but somehow, the smoothbore design makes it sound a little compact like it's bore is smaller, which it is. If you're a fan of Sanborn's sound, try a large bore Runyon w/the spoiler. Not a smooth bore design. I'm checking to see if they'll make me a large bore XL tenor mpc. 'cause their baffle design for alto and tenor XL plastic is amazing! So maybe try their SR model w/a baffle for alto? That should have a large bore and the spoiler will give U a nice baffle & secondary baffle w/the metal reed.

[super20dan]

the runyon jazz alto custom is the one you should try

[Brian]

MM, Ive tried all the pieces you mention, and have played the smoothbore alto for a few years. The Jag is more complex ,,, i"m not sure its a whole lot 'bigger' sounding as others have described (IMHO) ... just more complex in overtones ... that may equate to 'deeper' in the audio word lexicon. The Jody Jazz ESP for alto I found to be the best playing / responding mouthpiece I can remember trying. Beautiful centering of pitch and tone. But the sound is not as powerful as either the Jag, Smoothbore, or the Jody Jazz standard delrin .. at least when and how I play it.

Again, these are all relationships specifically for alto. The JJ delrin with spoiler, to me, is a great combo piece. Giving power and volume when pushed, and sensitivity and rich deep tones when layed back.

[super20dan]

brian i have to agree-i used a custom jazz for all the studio work i did on a recent c.d i worked on. the richness of sound and shading of tone possible with these mpcs really comes tru in the playback of the recording. but i still use the X.L. for live preformances as it has more power in reserve when you need it

[MojoBari]

The only JJ made out of Delrin is his bari sax Q piece (Quantum based).

[Brian]

Mojo... Im sure I could be mistaken.. but I thought the Runyon Custom, Custom Jazz, and Jody jazz (modified Custom) were all 3 delrin (Plastic). If not ... what are they? I dont think they are rubber??

[MojoBari]

Delrin is a Polymer like Teflon. XLs and Quantums are made out of it. The other pieces are a propietary plastic. I've heard its 20% hard rubber. It resembles Plexiglass (Acrylic) to me. "Sawdust" from refacing them smells like Plexiglass I have cut on my table saw.

[shmuelyosef]

Delrin is a trade name for (I think) DuPont's version of Nylon...yes the same nylon that ripstop tents and pantyhose are made of. It's an excellent acoustic material that has very similar mechanical properties to hard rubber (i.e. resonance, damping, etc) yet the chemical properties (resistance to UV like in showcase under fluorescent lights and tolerance to alcohols). It also does not burn as easily when polishing/machining.