Were Ricos better "back in the day"?

[Vortex]

I've heard arguments on this topic both ways - some say that Ricos used to be awesome back when all the legends (Coltrane, Sonny, et al) used them, while others say that modern Ricos play better and are more consistent than their vintage counterparts. For those of you who were around and playing back in the day, what do you think of this comparison?

[gary]

Well - just one foggy memory that might be pertinent. When I was introduced to the sax in 1970, eveyone I knew had reed clippers, some dutch rush, sandpaper or what have you, and did minor adjustments on their reeds. I see practically no one doing that today. That could be my environments and/or it could say something about the expectations consumers have regarding their reeds. ie how many are playable "out of the box".

[Mel]

Ok...so I'm neither old nor experienced enough to "remember" what reeds were like back in the days. But I've got to ask, aren't they still making it out of the same plant (with the exception of synthetic reeds)? I mean, surely the plant couldn't have evolved dramatically or even slightly significantly over the past few decades. And isn't the reed geometry still the same? I'm sure Rico wouldn't be pushing a new geometry if the old one was better. So how is it that these modern reeds could be so dramatically different? I understand if you say that the reed industry has made some improvements, but if I recall, many people open a box of reeds and like only a few of them.

And in response to Gary's reply, I think it's merely a matter of lifestyle. Again, I haven't been living long enough to know what life was like back then, but I'm told that life is getting more and more fast-paced overall. (Correct me if I'm wrong.) Many people claim they hardly have time to practice sufficiently, let alone perfect reeds with clippers, dutch rush, etc.

[Hurling Frootmig]

The old ones were finished better.

I play Rico's on a couple of mouthpieces and found that they work well if I take the time to sand the table and vamp.

[Anonymous]

I've got to ask, aren't they still making it out of the same plant (with the exception of synthetic reeds)? I mean, surely the plant couldn't have evolved dramatically or even slightly significantly over the past few decades.

I've been playing since early '70s (and boy am I tired - hehe) and I remember that in the late '70's or early '80s the reeds started to be poorer in quality. The standard line that music stores gave was that there had been a horrible reed crop due to bad weather or disease or something. (Similarly there have been diseases of French grapevines that nearly destroyed their wine industry until American vines were used as rootstock or something like that). So it wouldn't be that the plant has "evolved" or mutated -- but that the climate has changed or that disease hurt the crop -- or maybe just the number of sax players buying reeds or new business ethics causing companies to use lower quality cane crop than would have been selected 50 years ago.

Now I don't know how true those stories were but I have always believed that the actual cane has not been as good a quality in later years. Back in the old days they picked only the finest cane for reeds - during the bad years for cane crop they would have been taking cane that previously wouldn't have made the grade and using that to make reeds because it was all they had. (if the stories are true).

Now with that said - I bought dozens and dozens of boxes of very old reeds from a failed music store. I've been playing these ancient reeds for 25 years now and finally ran out of tenor reeds. (I've got more alto reeds than I can ever use). So I am about to buy tenor reeds for the first time in 25 years -- I don't even recognize most of the brands. What I expect to find is that the new reeds play better than the old ones. I expect this because I think the machinery to make the reeds is probably better and the shape/design of reeds has probably improved just like mouthpieces have (if you like the sound of modern pieces, like I do, opposed to those vintage pieces). But I still think the old cane stock would be better than todays crop - I just think the new ones will be made more consistent. I guess I'll find out soon.

[saxchado]

Blaine,

Since you're buying tenor reeds for the first time in 25 years, take it from one who has been buying them in every variety under the sun for the past 10-- give the ZZ's a try, and the Rico Jazz Selects as well. I'd been playing the RJS since they came out, but have recently "upgraded" (purely an opinion thing) to the ZZ. Either one would be a good place to start.

[1saxman]

I've been playing since starting in the grade school band in 1954, and I'm with 'Frootwig'. The new ones are poorly finished compared to the old 'brown box' Ricos. To 'Mel' I would say there's more to it, like higher standards on quality in the selection, grading and culling process back then. Notwithstanding, the Ricos of today do blow right out of the box (for the most part) and with a little work can be very good. Some of them, though, would not have been allowed in the box in the old days.

[littlemanbighorn]

One of the big things is that less of them are grown in the shade. Like any plant, cane will grow differently with more or less direct light.
I've also noticed a big difference in how well they're finished.