They all sound too Thin!!!

[saxchado]

I recently acquired a scroll shank C* soloist (60's vintage), and am really pleased with the sound. It has a full feel to it, I love it for classical and solo playing, but I need something I can blow in a big band and not get totally buried.

I tried several mouthpieces today:

1: a couple of HR Ponzol pieces. I found them to be a little bit thin, lacking in the lower tones of the spectrum. Anyone out there have a similar (or different) experience with these pieces? one was a 70, the other a 75.

2: A Morgan 6m? Better than the ponzols, but still lacking on the lower end of the overtones.

3: the best of all that I tried today was a simple HR Yani, size 7. Not what I'm looking for yet, but the best thing I've found so far.

Does anyone have any suggestions, given the criteria of a full spectrum, but with plenty of edge and projection? All I'm asking for is the perfect mouthpiece! That's not too much, is it? :?

[Miles Behind]

Perhaps try using a different ligature on your C*, if you like the sound, all you need to find is something to give it more volume. Practise.

I know that's not what you wanted to hear, but the more you practise, the louder your playing will be able to be.

There are many other things you could do, try getting your current mouthpiece opened up. It's genrally easier to play more open pieces louder than closed ones. A harder reed may also help (if you get it opened up you will probably need a softer reed strength to one you've been using.)

Adam.

[DanY]

Did you try the mouthpieces on the gig?
Sometimes, what seems like a thin-sounding mouthpiece in the practice room is just right with the whole band, and vice-versa.

[xuanvu]

How about a Beechler Diamond Inlay or a more expensive one, Beechler Belite... Also, I personally recommend Phil Barone alto mpc, it's a great piece.

[Dave Dolson]

Saxchado: I'll second the Beechler Diamond Inlay (too much for me even after Mojobari took the chirps out of it, but a huge sound).

I use a Super Session F, Soloist F, and Meyer 6S-Medium Chamber as favorite alto pieces. Also, I can use my Barone 7JS, and Kessler NYCustom. No amplification required. DAVE

[Bootman]

Try opening up your C*, or get a U chamber or scroll shank model. These are the biggest, thickest alto mpcs I have tried and fire amazingly when opened up and a baffle added.

[super20dan]

runyon custom or hite artist

[saxybeast]

A perfect mpc is impossible to come by...

Anyway, the JodyJazz plastic model with Plasticover reeds gives a wonderful bright, sweet, full sound that I totally dig. It's not as powerful as the XL, but it will give more than the Custom and is almost effortless to play.

[Balladeer]

For a full sound with brilliance and projection try a hard rubber Berg Larsen 85-95 in a 2 chamber and M facing. If you buy a current production model you may need to spend another $50-75 with a mouthpiece refacer like MojoBari. Also, you can spend a little more and get an RPC with the low, rollover baffle.

[Whatasaxman]

I can second the motion for RPC mouthpieces. I play RPC on alto for both lead and combo gigs. It is versatile and sounds wonderful on ballads or playing lead in a loud big band.

[No Clever Name]

A HR Beechler can give a nice warm, full sound (but it will also be fairly bright and edgy, don't know if that's ok?)

I also recommend the Jody Jazz plastic pieces... Very full sound, but also focused and with enough edge to be heard.

[saxchado]

Thanks all for your suggestions!

bootman, I don't want to open the selmer piece up, because it is a Scroll Shank/horseshoe chamber, I love the piece, just don't want to alter it and add a baffle, because then I have to sacrifice the classical tone for the jazz.

Miles, I did try several ligatures with the C*. a Harrison, a standard yamaha, and a BG super revelation. There just wasn't enough bite to be had.

I bought the selmer from a buddy for 75 bucks! A real steal. I didn't know if I would like it or not, but figured it was at least a good investment. Turns out, I love the piece!

For the Jazz end, I finally did what I should have done all along. I just went to the guy who made the custom tenor piece that I've been playing for the last 8 years. It has the flexibility, fullness and power that I'm looking for....the only problems are the price tag and the waiting list. They normally sell for 400 bucks a piece! :shock: Being a return customer, I got the old price of 300, but still a chunk of change! They were closer to 200 when I bought the tenor piece.....supply and demand, I guess. The waiting list is a year long, but I'm probably going to get the piece by the end of the month...it pays to have sent other people his way, hopefully, I'll have the piece in time for auditions at the beginning of the semester.

I know some of you will think that it's crazy to spend this much, but then how do you put a price on your sound?

I'm still thinking about the Barone or the Kessler as back-up pieces, but I think I'd better stifle any GAS attacks for the next little while or else my wife might kick me out onto the street!

Thanks for all of the input everyone! it's nice to know that any question can get an answer, no matter how trivial!

[Miles Behind]

I certainly don't think it's crazy spending 300 dollars on finding the right sound. I know a tutor who plays alot around my neck of the woods and he has spent of £2000 in the last 2 MONTHS! He's been getting mouthpieces, getting them customized and then not liking them and trying again with other ones.

Thats close to $3000!!!

That's crazy.

Adam.

[bruce bailey]

Try a Selmer S-80 or S-90. Worth a shot as they are similar but vastly different playing!

[Bootman]

I have opened several scroll shank alto mpcs and they really do open up and fire nicely when a bigger tip is added to them. They also retain a centred sound that the Meyers don't have (new or old). JJ mpcs are another very good option, the new HR models are good but I prefer the Blue models which seem to be a little more centered in terms of core sound. RPC's and Brilharts are also worth looking into.

[Andrew D]

Bootman: I am thinking of buying a c selmer soloist which is a lot cheaper than e,f,g, which seem to go for ridiculous prices these days. If this was opened up to say an F or G, how would this compare to an original soloist f,g??

Anyone else have any experiences of doing this on the old soloists and the results?

[uksaxman]

U Must try a Pillinger NYA in Bronzite, like the best meyer, durable as metal, with a sound/flexibility between the 2. I play a self modified Dukoff M7, modded to give a silghtly fuller sound, but I always carry the Pillinger as its the most versatile piece. Ed is very very helpful and knowlegable.
Great pieces.
Brian

[Dweekie]

Bootman: I am thinking of buying a c selmer soloist which is a lot cheaper than e,f,g, which seem to go for ridiculous prices these days. If this was opened up to say an F or G, how would this compare to an original soloist f,g??

Anyone else have any experiences of doing this on the old soloists and the results?

I think refacing one is much better than getting an original because it's cheaper, it can be customized to your tastes, and the rails/tables will be perfect. It can play like an original if you want it to (as long as the refacer knows how an original is supposed to sound and play). My soloist C* opened up to E is fantastic. Has much more power and edge than an original. I even bought another C to have opened up.

[Gange]

Have you tried Rovner's mpcs? Powerful and with a full body. I play an older metal version, so I don't know what model or size to suggest.
Think Maceo Parker coupled with, let's say, Hank Mobley's tenor.

Mine is a 6*. It's perfect for lead, and perhaps even better to make the lead (if its not you) sweat a little. :-)

[-TH]

I've had my vintage Soloist C* (short shank) opened up to E (by Mojobari). Last tuesday I had the ultimate test for it: I played alto&tenor in a concert. Slapped a Vandoren Java 2.5 on it and wow!!! This is the alto sound I've been after! So I would recommend you to get a older Soloist and let someone (like Mojobari) open it up to E or F. It also projects really well.

-TH

[tenorskateboard]

I know this may be simple..or dumb answer..but of course a harder reed can assist in volume..able to deliver the volume that you want..or atleast, give an open door in allowing more volume. I like 3.5 V16s for that reason..it's all about practicing and getting used to the harder reed..and I end up using it just as good as a 2.5. I went back to a 2.5 Blue Box and V16, just for kicks, and they sounds WAY TOO THIN! V16 was better, but still my lower register just doesn't cut the sound that I like on 3.5 V16s. More hearty sound..just takes mean practice to get the edge and quick cut sound. Just that Plastic Tenor Mouthpieces just aren't cutting it anymore..since I'm so used to my Hard Rubber and Metal Combo on my Alto...(Selmer Paris E and Selmer Metal 4002). So maybe just for kicks...try 3.5 and up..if you are curious to try one day. :-)

[tenorskateboard]

I would also like to reply to the object of buying budgets. I really agree with what Miles Behind said about Money not being an issue, because findng that perfect mouthpiece isn't gonna happen, and certain situations call for other mouthpieces, and a certain sounds. I've heard that practicing with a certain mouthpiece will make your sound much better in many styles, but other situations call for a different blend..when you need it. Enough of the rambling! The Mouthpiece Search Has Only Begun!

[MM]

Anybody else have a vintage scroll shank Selmer opened up lately? Or care to update their comments? Who does good refacing work on this type of mouthpiece and what is a good tip size to open up a C*? Do they still tune and articulate as well when opened?

I recently purchased a vintage C* for a good price. It plays fine...I always liked them in close tips...but I'd like to see what the buzz is about on them when really opened up with some extra baffle remaining. Oddly enough, the Selmer's chamber throat is not all that different from that of my Lakey 7*3, though the concave chamber is quite a bit different and darker. Even though I don't really believe that material is critical, something bugs me about the plastic used in the Lakey and Beechler Diamond Inlay.

Do you think there would be enough of a baffle after the C* is opened up to 80 or 85 or is it better to have some epoxy added? I guess I can experiment with putty but the existing tip opening is probably too small for any useful data.

[MM]

Ok, one more think. Will a tricked-out vintage Soloist be just like the new Super Session, or is the Super Session a different, more Meyer-like design?

[bari_sax_diva]

I'm mostly a bari player, so my alto setup needs to be something that takes a lot of air without getting impossible to control up top. The piece I keep going back to is a Barone Jazz 8M... it projects well (I end up playing a lot of lead lately for some reason) and I can't overblow it. Yet, with a slightly softer reed (about a RJS 3S), it's a nice piece for solo stuff.

That said, I found an .85 Ponzol HR piece with a big chamber and a very small rollover baffle in a shop a couple weeks ago. I had John Riley reface both pieces, and the Ponzol is a cannon--big, but not too bright. It might well become my lead piece--the Barone is a wee bit fatter and more flexible, but I really, really like both of 'em.

Hope this helps,
Leanne

[playitfunky]

LOL at another mouthpiece thread.

[Rackety Sax]

MM, Fred Rast sells modified Soloist/style alto mouthpieces on his website (http://www.rastmusic.com/sax.html). He's got a little info there and maybe he'd be willing to share more info with you if you gave him a holler.

[Rackety Sax]

... Even though I don't really believe that material is critical, something bugs me about the plastic used in the Lakey and Beechler Diamond Inlay. ...

I agree, there's just something wrong about putting that cheapo plastic on a nice horn.

[LeftySaxDude]

MM, Fred Rast sells modified Soloist/style alto mouthpieces on his website (http://www.rastmusic.com/sax.html). He's got a little info there and maybe he'd be willing to share more info with you if you gave him a holler.

I just ordered a Rast soloist in a .096" it should arrive next week. He is the master when it comes to tricking out soloists. Kenny Garrett uses one.

[MM]

Yes, I know Fred. The .096" seems over the top for me but the .085" version sounds interesting. Let us know how you like it.

[LeftySaxDude]

When did he start making a .085" option? His website only offers the .080" and the .096"

Hmm.....