Buescher Snap-Ins - Replacement

[Hurling Frootmig]

I am getting my Buescher 400 S-5 overhauled but for future reference could someone describe the process to replace Buescher snap in pads. I understand they typically have a metal back but otherwise I have no idea how replace one!

[MusicMedic]

There seems to be 3 ideas about replacing the pads on a Buescher with Metal Backs.

1. Glue the pad in place with Shellac. Level it to the tone hole by heating the shellac behind the pad and adjusting the pad in the shellac. This is how cardboard backed pads are installed in a regular installation. When all that is done, snap the snap back on the center of the pad and re-check for leaks.
-The problem that I have noticed with this type of installation is that the metal backed pads are usually pretty tight in the pad cups. Once they go in, adjusting them in the cup is difficult to say the least. It usually results in damaging the pad.

2. Use no Glue. This is the method that they used in the factory (no that does not make it a better method). Before the pad goes into the pad cup, the pad cup must be leveled. Insert the pad in the cup and put the snap in the center. Once that is done, put the key on the horn and level the pad by bending the pad cup to match the tone hole. *some folks level all the tone holes before they begin and some don't.
-This method may allow the pad to 'spin' in the pad cup after time. I have only experienced that problem when a pad that is too small was installed; but it's a consideration.

3. Some Glue. To make sure that the pad will not move around in the pad cup once installed, you can use a combination of both 1 and 2. Adding just a thin coat of shellac (for this I use liquid shellac and put it in very thin) behind the pad will keep the pad from spinning. The pad can then be installed using the same method as #2.
-A common complaint with the Metal backed pads is that they are a little too thick. one would need to keep this in mind when adding shellac behind the pad and use a very thin coat.

[Tenorsaxer]

using method #2, is it possible to keep everything on the horn and put the pads in?

[MusicMedic]

Yeah I guess so....My concern would be the rods and such. The top stack of a Buescher is a relatively long rod that includes the, Octave pad, G, Front F, C, B, Bis and A keys. The A, G, Bis and C are split keys where there is a section of hinge tube then a large gap and another section of hinge tubing. If those two hinge tubes are not straight (in-line) a lot of friction will get into the mechanism.

Often the pads that you might be replacing were installed this way (bending) and those long rods or split keys are likely to be bent or miss-aligned. Then, you get in there and put your pads in (doing your own bending) and end up with even more bent up linkages; and more friction.

If you are going to use the bending technique, I would suggest that you remove the keys before you replace the pads making sure the rods and hinge tubes are straight. Then do the same after you have installed the pads. This is a minimum.

[Tenorsaxer]

thank you musicmedic. I was intending on taking all the keys off anyway just to get familiar with taking horns apart.I am looking to being a tech as perhaps some supplemental income for when i (hopefully :? ) become a pro musician.

Once again, thank you.

[wianno]

How do you remove the old snap-on pad without damaging the resonator?

[MusicMedic]

The resonator is the snap that holds the pad in place. So, gently pry the snap (resonator) off and the pad should fall out. The pad may also be held in place with shellac in which case a little heat is in order.

[wianno]

Thanks. I guess that this could be done with a stiff bladed knife.

I have another question. A couple of the pads have the brown Selmer type resonators. Does this mean that the key cup no longer has the snap-on feature? If so, is there a way to retrofit?

Thanks

[MusicMedic]

The pads that have resonators other than the solid domed Buescher Snaps, have been modified. THere is a male spud inside the pad cup that receives that snap. Someone has cut that spud off and put regular pads in those keys.

There are a few things that you can do. There are some seamless domed resonators that will match your snaps pretty well, you might consider using those on the pads that have been altered. You can use the Seamless domes with the Metal backed pads and glue them in. This will get you similar look, sound and feel. I have these on my website.

If you have a parts horn, you could unsolder the spud from an old True Tone (not a new Aristocrat) and solder into your pad cup.

[wianno]

Thanks again.