Working with the tip

[sessionsax]

I have had very good luck modifying a few Dukoff that I have by modify the baffle step and modifying the size of the chamber to add guts to the sound, but I have ruined a couple by trying to modify the baffle near the tip. If I remove material -- or even minorly muck with the portion of the baffle nearest the tip, I kill the piece.

Anyone have any guesses what I may be doing wrong and can you provide tips on how to revive the dead pieces. Both were going well until I tried to lightly fix pitting in that area.

[Joe]

Hey, Sessionsax. As you found out, the area right behind the tip is very sensitive to change, especially when it's as high as a Dukoff. Take out a little and you can make the piece freer blowing and the sound richer and deeper. Take out just a little more and the response gets stuffy and the high notes start to go flat. Many refacers correct this mistake by opening the tip up just a bit and then recutting the tip rail and baffle right behind the tip.

More likely what you've done, though, rather than removing too much material, is you've removed it unevenly. The baffle right behind the tip is the most sensitive area because it's the area of highest resistance and also the area of resistance underneath the thinnest and most easily affected part of the reed. The slight concave shape from side to side is to provide extra resistance behind the thinner parts of the reed, the sides. The lower part in the middle allows the heart of the reed more freedom to vibrate, resulting in richer sound and better control. This curve keeps the sound from being to reedy and keeps the reed from phasing (squeaking) by using resistance to inhibit the thinner sides from vibrating faster than the thicker middle. If you get this curve off even slightly, then you you can loose control of certain parts of the reed really fast, causing a bad sound, uneven and/or unpredictable response, and squeaking.

Here's one test you can do. Turn the bad mouthpieces at a slight angle on your sax and clamp down on one side of the reed with your embouchure (basically just playing one side of the reed). Then tilt the mouthpiece to the other side and repeat. Try this with a couple of reeds just to make sure the reed you're using isn't stiffer on one side than the other. If your work isn't even, then the two sides will sound different. Look at the side that plays worse and compare it to the other side, looking for minor places where you might have messed it up. You may see places where the bad side needs some modification.

If you can't see anything, or both sides sound the same, then take a Dukoff that you like and compare the baffles, looking for minute differences. You can try to work the baffle on the messed up piece to have the same general shape and curve as the good piece. It will be freer blowing, though, because it will have less baffle material. You my be able to get the bad pieces playing well this way, though.

If there's just too much material removed out of the baffle to get the response and power you want out of a Dukoff, though, it's time to let a refacer recut the tip and have a go at recutting the baffle. The good news is that I've found most players prefer thdir Dukoffs with a little less material right behind the baffle. The Dukoff baffle shape is also one of the easiest to duplicate by hand. If you send them off, there's a chance that your professionally reworked Dukoffs will be your favorites when you get them back, provided you haven't taken way too much material out before you send them out.

[Joe]

Sessionsax, I should have mentioned that, when you do the side to side test, if one side is too wild, bright, and freeblowing, then you've probably taken too much baffle out on that side close to the side rail. The only fix you can do is take the other side down as much and then restore the baffle curve, removing more material from the middle also. Use a good Dukoff as a model to duplicate the baffle curve. If done properly, you'll end up with a piece that's a lot freer blowing and somewhat less powerful than your other Dukoff, though. If one side plays well but the other is stuffy, then the stuffy side needs to be taken down and the curve from side to side restored.

I will also mention that this isn't easy work for the inexperienced, but it sound like you're getting experiened pretty fast.

[sessionsax]

Joe,

Thats great advice and its clearly laid out and makes sense. Thank you greatly for your input

[Paul Coats]

A project I have, soon, is to show how I finish the tip rail and blend the baffle in. Bill Mecca is going to convert my tape to MPEG, and we will post it or a link to it on the mouthpiece work group.

[sessionsax]

Please do, the mpeg would prove very beneficial to me and others. I am getting confident with my lower baffle and chamber mods, but the baffle closest to the tip is --- well -- baffling to me. :)

[markieg]

I only have a day's experience on 2 of my plastic pieces, but I found that the tip rail needs to be very definite. I used an exacto-knife to carve a little groove running right behind the tip making the rail more prominent. It isn't a very good looking job, but if you are as precise as you can be it may help. But make sure that if anyone contradicts what I say, listen to them because of my inexperience. Good luck!