More overtones on different brands?

[Miles Behind]

I've been playing a YAS62 for almost 2 years now. And i can never get above Bb3 when im trying overtones, without cheating. I can jump from Bb3 to Ab3 but i miss out the D and F inbetween.

I was talking to Courtney Pine recently (WOW, what a player, he has alot of tricks up his sleve), and he said that Yamaha are renowned for being poor in the Overtone field. He said selmers are much better and let me try it on his horn. Sure enough, i could get up to the D on this, with his setup, without ANY practise beforehand.

This has reriously made me consider upgrading to a Selmer alto, but what are your views on this?

Adam.

[profzeek]

i can't believe that's the case. ever hear james carter playing his yamaha?? he doesn't seem to have a problem.

[CodyW]

Profzeeks got a good point. James Carter is able to do alot of multiphonic affects with a yamaha. On his new album though, he looks to be playing on a matte series III selmer.

[awholley]

I've played Yamaha, Couf (Keilwerth), Buescher, Selmer etc. and never had any one more problematic than the others for producing overtones.

[Miles Behind]

Yea true. I guess it comes down to that practise thing again...kinda like leading a horse to water, but can't make it drink sorta thing.

Thanks for your help.

Adam.

[BigDaddyJ]

Yo Miles,

did you also use Courtney's mouthpiece and reed? I've found certain mpc's accentuate different overtones. On top of that, if your horn is not leak free, some of the overtones will be resistant.

On another note,was this Mr. Pine's Coltrane tribute tour. I've only read raves about Courtney live. Alas, I don't think he'll be to the States any time soon, let alone Denver, CO.

[saxchado]

I've been playing yamaha for the better part of 10 years, and as long as the horn was in proper playing order, I've never had trouble with overtones.

I'd be inclined to say that the reed/mouthpiece combination is probably a much bigger issue than the horn.

Get your horn looked over, and make sure there are no leaks, if that still doesn't solve the problem you may want to try switching reeds (it's much cheaper than switching mouthpieces :)

You did say "Courtney's Setup" did that include mouthpiece and reed? If it did, that'd be the first place I'd start.

[Miles Behind]

Yea, it included his mouthpiece and reed.

He played a black series III. He used Vandoren tradional reeds, but he also had a box of Java reeds in his case.

The thing is, i don't have a clue what mouthpiece it was? I didn't recognise it.

The way i met him was actually pretty imbaressing. I was told i was going to be playing with a rythm section, so i had parts for tenor madness and i was waiting to go on. The idea was he'd listen to me play (plus one other guy before me) and then he'd comment on us infront of the crowd. I was already nervous enough playing infront of this guy. I got down, and there was no rythm section. He said, "right on ya go play". I tried to call the rythm section down and he said, "no, just yourself". Reluctantly i started improvising. Finished. Crowd seemed to like it and he said well done. He then showed me how to play multiphonics, slap tongue, he tried to show me altissimo slide, but i still don't get that!, and some other stuff.

When it came to trying overtones, i couldn't get the top Bb, he then told me to sign the note out loud, so i did, then he said play it, and i did. It was wierd. But i've tried this method to get the higher overtones (D, F) and it doesn't work. I can cheat to get the D by opening the first palm key. But the F is never there. I can jump from the Bb up to the Ab, and Bb and higher, but never the damn D!!! :(

I use a Yanagisawa metal mouthpiece and Rico orange box...wait for it...one and halfs...yea. The tip opening on my piece is a 9 and when i got it, i found it extremely hard to play, so i had to go down a few reed strengths.

Anyone got any advice on mouthpieces which they have found produce more overtones on alto? Maybe the admin or mod could move this into mouthpiece discussion seeing as we've drifted into that area?

Adam.

[HC]

I would try his setup than buying a new horn. But I do want to add that I can't even get one altissmo note out on the bass clarinet but could go up to altissmo B on Contra Alto Clarinet. :roll: Not going to spend time figuring out on the bass clarinet since it is not my primary focus any more.

[Benny]

Courtney's sounds is quite bright and mouthpieces like that tend to emphasise the upper partials a lot more, making the altissimo seem easier. I use the word 'seem' though because with most equipment changes we notice the difference straight off, but after a while things settle back down and your own sound and problems resurface. The way you blow each set-up has a big effect too.
For example: say you play a meyer 6 which is a piece that has a chamber that is not too small and has a round sound. If you want to play this piece with a funky bright sound you really have to work to learn how to get it out of the set-up. Now, say you suddenly change to a metal beechler which is quite bright. Because you will probably blow the beechler with the same effort as your meyer it will probably seem way too punchy, but this is purely because you are approaching it the same way as your meyer. Over time you will learn to adjust.
When you played Courtney's horn and set-up the same sort of thing happens.
Also, since beginning the saxophone I have owned (in this order) a Yas-23, Buescher 400, Yas-62, Selmer SA-80 II, Mark VI and now a Yamaha 82z custom and I would have to say that none of these horns particulary favoured altissimo. Its all up to you (90%) and having the right balance between your mouthpiece size (tip opening, chamber, baffle) and reed (10% I reckon). Maybe your piece is too big. If you haven't seriously explored the altissimo before a metal yani 9 is not the piece to do it on. I would try something more moderate that allows your throat to be more relaxed.
Finally, the D and F overtones are probably the most resistant. You may be able to get some of the higher ones without getting the D and F but once you master D and F these upper partials will really sing out.

[Miles Behind]

Wow, thankyou very much for that detailed response Benny.

I started playing Altissimo on a C*. I didn't start overtones until i had the Yanagisawa though. I'm thinking about changing to a Meyer or possibly a piece from Dave Kessler.

Adam.

[Vortex]

I think I speak for most sax teachers when I say it's better to learn overtones as an introduction to altissimo rather than jumping straight into altissimo.

That's why Selmer's just have "that sound"... the full, rich overtones.