Steve Goodson Unison - has anybody tried it?

[newking70]

Great? Good? What's the scoop........ 8)

[Saxaholic]

Uh oh....

*Finds a bush to hide behind*
:twisted: :lol: :shock:

Saxaholic

[newking70]

Did i open up a can of worms? :lol:

[Dave Dolson]

Newking: Yup . . . well, maybe. The question was about the horn, but someone may take the opportunity to issue another rant about Steve Goodson. Not me, I don't know him and never had anything to do with him.

I have not seen a SG Unison. I have an S300 Unison alto which is a really nice horn, both in beauty as well as playability. From what I've heard and read, the S300 may be the better of the two, but for what reason I don't know. DAVE

[gary]

self-edited. wasn't worth it :roll:

[Stacey]

newking70,

Don't worry about cans of worms. Simple advice, really - if you manage to find one of these horns in a music store or elsewhere, try it. Have it checked out by a technician you trust, and have someone you trust listen to you playing the horn. If you're happy with the price/quality combination, buy it; if not, don't. Be wary of placing special orders for any sort of horn sight unseen, including this model or any other model.

You won't find much emotionless advice on these horns, here or anywhere else. You're gonna have to trust yourself, because you can't totally trust anyone else on the Net.

I wish you great luck in your search for a horn.

Stacey
(There - I did pretty well at remaining noncommittal, didn't I, folks?)

PS. I ended my search for a new horn last year when I got hold of a new Cannonball Big Bell tenor - I'd urge you to play one of those, too, if you get the chance.

[Saxaholic]

Sorry for the sense of humor. Here's a more serious reply.

The horns have sparked much controversial debate across the forum. Some have had good experiences, others have had bad experiences.

I agree with Stacey's advice. Try the horn out for yourself before purchasing. Intonation is reputed to be exceptional on these horns, even the palm keys. I have also heard they have a thinner tone. These are things I've HEARD, not experienced.

It would be wise to ignore most of the comments that might present themselves here, and instead get the horn in your hands and blow. Then you'll know. Heh...that should be my punch line...."Try it and blow, then you'll know." What do you guys think? :lol: :roll:

Saxaholic

[Gandalfe]

Saxaholic sez:

Try it and blow, then you'll know." What do you guys think?

Gandalfe sez I wouldn't touch that with a ten foot pole. :shock:

[T.S.]

I tried two of the tenors at the 2003 NAMM show and found the two show samples to be decent sounding horns. I preferred the white Kangaroo skin and dome resonator set up horn in the few minutes I had with them. They were very even at octave break and ergonomically quite easy to get around. Intonation seemed decent (though I didn't have my tuner with me to do a scale check).
I would have to spend a lot more time with one before I would choose it over an 82Z or B&S Medusa (my favorite 2 of the current crop of horns) .

The horns are not listed on the current Unison website, so I'm not sure that any are still being made (the previous site had a big lay out). I've never seen one in a shop, though I've seen a few listed on internet sites.

[Stacey]

T.S.,

Over on his forum, Mr. Goodson commented that he and Unison are in the midst of a disagreement regarding their business arrangements (I neither know nor care about the details). He made a comment something to the effect that he wouldn't be doing anything else with them until this disagreement is resolved. He didn't specifically say that no more are being manufactured, but he did say that there are presently none in stock and still a number of backorders. From that, I would infer that you probably won't see many of them at dealerships in the near future. Anything beyond that is just wild speculation, no matter whose mouth (or keyboard) it comes from.

Stacey

[singlereed]

The ones here in the UK have stuck at the dealers for some time and have been offered on eBay with no takers. I think there is a gap between the price and perceived value of a little-know Taiwanese brand. I do appreciate everthing that's gone onto them, but it's a lot to shell out for something that in years to come will be a little known curiosity, and I suspect the value will bomb.

[Stacey]

I would have expected that perhaps the company would try to match the available horns with the existing backorders, unless the backorders are for nonstandard options. You could ease the backorders, and reduce the stale inventory.

Yeah, I saw a couple of them offered by dealers (Sam Ash, I think) on eBay myself a while back, with no takers even at pretty heavily discounted prices.

Then again, what do I know. Don't answer that. :wink:

[Morry]

I wonder how many folks made the downpayment, and never saw a horn?

[Stacey]

Morry - Well, at least one: me. I did get my deposit back, though. I suppose there are people who are willing to wait indefinitely, but eventually my Instant Gratification Gene kicked in, and I got my deposit back and bought a Cannonball.

[Pete]

Former Moderator Gene kickin' in:

Gentlefolk, we had the discussion of Mr. Goodson and deposits about, what, a year ago. ALL of the SOTW Mods and Admins don't want to see that discussion reopened, especially considering that the LAST discussion resulted in about a half-dozen people being banned from this Forum and two or three asking to leave, including Mr. Goodson.

If YOU have put a deposit on a Goodson horn and are having difficulties getting it back from Mr. Goodson/Unision, you CAN certianly post about your problem, but ALSO post what you've done to rectify the situation or plan on having your post deleted and having Harri, Hurling, Gandalfe or me sending you a warning e-mail.

If YOU have further VERIFIED information on the issues that Mr. Goodson is having with Unison, please do post here, but hold the rampant speculation to an incredibly low level.

FINALLY, the above is more to protect SOTW than you. Trust me and don't push it, OK? :wink:

[Morry]

My aplologies. It was an honest query on my part, but I'll let it drop.

[Stacey]

Fear not, former moderator. I took Morry's post as an honest query, and I just gave it a simple honest answer. I wouldn't have even ventured that answer, but 1) I don't think there's anything controversial about my answer, and 2) people lately show no signs of piling onto the scrum. No need for panic or deletions, but feel free to lock the thread if you are concerned about some of the rascals that inhabit this place from time to time.

--- Stacey

[Pete]

Thank you, gentlemen. I appreciate your responses and apologize, myself, if I offended.

Answering Stacey, I am always a bit concerned when I see a topic about SG and his business, because those topics become overheated quickly. His horns, however, I've never had a problem with folks discussing.

I am intrested in the reason why the SG Unison is no longer an offered product, but I didn't want to see speculation, because that's what caused some major issues in the past. The "answer from the horse's mouth", to quote Stacey, is what we all need to work with.

I'll go back to work now and leave everyone alone :).

[Fun Bun]

Yes, you are opening a big can of worms.

Alas, the tenor was good. The horn died because of serious miss-management issues.


Just get a Ref. 54 tenor or alto and be done with it.

[saxymanzach]

Hey, My teacher is a unison artist, Roger Stemen. I don't know what the big fuss about Steve Goodson is (nor do I want to find out) but I know that I had the privildge to try one of these horns and was crazy about it. They say it is not made any more, but I was told one of the models is the same sax minus goodsons name. Either way, I love the unisons.

[Pete]

The Goodson horn was built on a specific Unison body and then customized with a different neck and keywork. I'd say it's probable that the HollyWoodWinds (Unison no longer exists) horns have a similar bore, but I can guarantee that the keywork, venting and neck are different.

If you want specific details, I'd recommend contacting HollyWoodWinds or Goodson himself: I'm sure they can list the similarities and differences.

And, no, I'm not going to go into detail about the Goodson thing that's mentioned in my several above posts.

I can say that I haven't seen any of the Goodson horns on eBay (and no, 7368692077 is not a Goodson model Unison), so that might mean that people are trying to hang on to them. There also weren't that many produced.

[Grumps]

I can say that I haven't seen any of the Goodson horns on eBay (and no, 7368692077 is not a Goodson model Unison), so that might mean that people are trying to hang on to them. There also weren't that many produced.

I'd always wondered how many were actually made; having read or seen reports, reviews or auctions from only a few folks. After they first came out, I saw two music stores auctioning new ones on Ebay for somewhere between $1500-$2000. They didn't sell. An alto sold on Ebay for $1,000, but that was to an insider, who bought it despite public complaints posted in regard to the very same horn. Shortly thereafter, the new owner claimed with some adjustment, the problems went away. And that's what surprised me most; some of the problems with the horn reported on the designer's very own web forum. They included complaints regarding an out of tune high range, screws loosening despite re-tightening, plating wear to the keys with early use, and unexplained pieces of metal falling from the horn.

[gary]

I can say that I haven't seen any of the Goodson horns on eBay, so that might mean that people are trying to hang on to them.
...or they're still awaiting delivery. :D

[Pete]

I'd always wondered how many were actually made.
When I had last talked to Goodson regarding this, it was during the first couple weeks of the first "run" of these horns, so production numbers were not incredibly high -- think SML levels -- but there may have been more production after that time, so the final number is "more than a hundred and less than the total volume of all Unisons produced the year(s) that the SG model was in production".

Goodson may be able to tell you specifically. Maybe, if you ask nice :) (more inside jokes, folks. You can ignore us).

[Dave Dolson]

My comments are an old story, but if Rheuben Allen IS associated with Hollywoodwinds, it is probably a good thing. I haven't had the need to take anything to Rheuben lately, so I haven't talked to him about it.

He usually does repair work for me (and two overhauls). I bought a new Unison alto from him when he was distributing them - and it was a marvelous player with a great sound. Yes, I eventually traded it away, but it was a solid horn with no construction or finish faults.

I know nothing about Goodson. DAVE

[Grumps]

Maybe, if you ask nice

Straight from the horse's mouth, eh? Trouble is... you're likely to get it from the other end.

[Pete]

Now, now. Be nice.

Last I talked to him regarding the Unisons was a very, very long time ago and he didn't want to give out exact numbers. Now that the marque is dead and he's no longer associated with that company, an interested party might now be able to get the exact number.

As an aside note, while I had kind of a morbid facination with the Unison/Goodson soap opera, it would be interesting to hear what Shun Hwa Chang has to say. He also could provide the exact numbers produced.

[Grumps]

I've had civil discussions with him before on alt.music.saxophone (as well as not so civil ones), so he might respond if I ask. But yeah, I'd rather hear it from someone else.

[Pinnman]

I have played one ... and without asking! I bought a case and got the SG Unison in SP instead. I liked the looks and the keywork, but was not thrilled by the way it played. It was OK, but did nothing to excite. My various Bueschers have all made me much happier; also my Selmer SA80 II which I sold to give way to the Bueschers.

I don't wish to knock it; just to say it did nothing special for me. Oh! and yes, the rightful owner received it two days later and I got my case. I was happier that way.

[Grumps]

Goodson may be able to tell you specifically.

Unfortunately, he claims such is confidential information.

[saxplay]

I heard from a certain famous horn player that these play very well.

[rim shot]

really? some famous horn player?

... buddy that sure convinces me...

[Harri Rautiainen]

really? some famous horn player?
... buddy that sure convinces me...Let me guess......
maybe "sinjarah"? :twisted:

[MikeCa]

I had tried them at the Namm show several years ago and thought they played great and some of the "innovations" were really cool. I also remember the horn having the best ergonomics ever but there were some intonation issues.

Kangaroo pads are great. I have yet to see one wear out. I was very impressed by them as with Kangaroo swabs (which fold up into a little pouch- hense the name). Unison/hollywoodwinds is still distributing the swabs.

Goodson is what he is, the horn is what it was, if you can find a used one I'd guess the price would be pretty good and if you like the way it plays I'd jump on it. Unisons are solid horns in general, I have no reason to think the Goodson horn would be anything less.

[reeddoubler]

I tried two Steve Goodson Altos at a shop where I teach, the most noticeable things about them (other than the fact that they played OK, a bit dark for my taste, but the scale seemed to be fine) was the addition of a third octave vent high up on the neck to facilitate high notes, analogous to the third octave keys on some oboes/English horns, and the absence of pearls on the key touches (the metal touches feel slippery to me). The mechanism to the third octave key on the neck looks kind of Rube Goldberg, buts seems to work OK.