Why wont the sax community accept synthetic reeds?

[kepa]

Why wont we accept them. Yes, some are crap but some are awesome, just like cane. Why are we so hostile towards the synthic industry?

[gary]

I believe there are a number of people on this forum who use synthetic reeds. And I don't recall their being dissed for their preferences. What are you referring to specifically?

[Beowulfmk]

I like Fibracell, which happens to be synthetic. I hate Legere, which also happens to be synthetic.

[saxophrenic]

Kepa,
I am responding as a dillatante who has delved into many areas of enthusiasm over the years. The devotee's of any enthusiasm love the arcane and mysterious aspects of their "thing". Knowing and caring about it separates the initiated from the posers.
Take cross country skiing for example. There are the folks who agonized over analyzing snow crystals - taking surface temps and humidity readings and then decide what type of wax or clister to apply to the bottom of their skis for the perfect glide. Yeesh! I tried that for awhile but got sick of sliding all over the hills or catching large clumps of snow on my skis. Anyway, I gave up and got a pair of fishskin bottom skis and was a happy dilitante camper.
Touring bicyclists are another group of "gear freaks", etc.

Sax people can get real techno as you can tell on this board. I'm not knocking it mind you but that is just the way it is. Once you have invested so much time in the gnostic mysteries of cane reeds - mouthpiece facings, etc, how could you deign to use plastic reeds!
I think it has something to do with all of that. It's like Selmer folks - are they the Jesuits of the sax world? Comments?

[kepa]

saxophrenic, that was a nice essay, very deep. When i say people dont like synthetic reeds i mean people dont like them. Yes there are people who are starting to cross over to synthetic, but many people hate them with a passion. I want to know why people dont like them, or are they just jumping o the band-wagon.

Beowulfmk, dont be a hater. Im sure they just dont fit your specific style of playing. I recently got a legere and love it. I am thinking of exclusivly playing on synthetics but am hesistent because i am led to believe everone in the world hates syhthetic reeds, except for a minority of people.

[Sigmund451]

Its simple. I dont like the way the ones Ive played sound. Its not a purist bias.

[gary]

I still want to know where "...everone in the world hates syhthetic reeds" comes from. :?

[larry]

I think your premise is wrong on many fronts: (1) I don't think there is a "sax community" that speaks as a whole on every issue; (2) I think many players not only accept but prefer synthetic reeds; (3) I think that the players that don't like synthetic reeds accept that there are those who do.

It's like asking "Why won't the sax community accept hats?"

All generalizations are false; even this one!

[Beowulfmk]

Kepa,

You are contradicting yourself. Have you read my posts at all? I said I like Fibracell. IT'S A SYNTHETIC REED. HAVE YOU EVEN TRIED FIBRACELL? I TRIED BOTH LEGERE AND FIBRACELL. I tried both studio and regular cut. I have no problem with you or any other people who like Legere. If you like it, go ahead and play it. I'm playing on synthetic too, right? Here I go again.

I like Fibracell which happens to be synthetic. I hate Fibracell which also happens to be synthetic.

[Morry]

I've tried a number of synthetics, and they don't work well for me. Notice I said for ME. I have a bright sound anyway that I'm always trying to darken, and they are just too buzzy for me. I've heard other guys sound awesome on them though. To each his own. That's why we have so many choices.

[saxophrenic]

Okay Kepa,
:roll: You just may have to accept alot of the posts here. Sounds like for many folks who have tried synthetic reeds, they just don't like what they do to their "sound". You know, the one in our heads that we all try to be. :)

If you try 'em and don't like 'em, that's got to be fair. Right? 8)

[Mike Cesati]

Wow

[goodsax]

I use Fibracells on my alto and sop and am very pleased with their sound and low maintenance, high durability. But, I do switch back and forth between the Fibracells and Rico Royals, depending on the venue. I tried a Bari plastic reed and didn't like it at all. The same goes for some Rico Plasticovers I bought - not good for me.

[sax_appeal]

I like some synthetic reeds, its just that I love cane reeds too much to make the switch. So what if cane reeds are inconsistent? It makes them interesting and if you don't like one you can adjust it. These are a couple of the qualities which make cane reeds great, but synthetic reeds lack these. They are all the same and I'm not entirely sure if you can adjust synthetic reeds. I sure as heck haven't seen anybady make a synthetic reed out of scratch from a piece of plastic designed like a piece of cane. They don't grip onto your lip anyway...

[sthmlly]

BARI!!!

[averageschmoe]

when phil sobel was in the south pacific with the army band they made reeds from downed fighter canopies... apparently they sounded terrible but it beat running around and getting shot at with the infantry.

now as to synthetics... i've tried a few, don't like em. i don't find any reason to continue messing with them. cane plays fairly consistent for me and feels much more alive. i don't care for most of the sounds i hear coming from other players using synthetic cane, but then i don't care for the sound of most saxophonists period. and that's another discussion entirely.

[jr!]

I currently use Fibracell's.
I don't think I'll ever switch back to cane reeds again, although I did love the Vandoren ZZ reeds.

[paulwl]

I played nothing but Fibracells for 3 years. They weren't perfect by any means, but they offered a combination of great sound and low maintenance requirements that was enough to make me largely abandon cane reeds. Their free resonating qualities also helped my difficulties in the low end and altissimo, largely I think by making me less "resistant" to practicing in those ranges.

Note I say "largely." I sometimes play bari, bass, and light classical music on vintage setups. The Fibes were a nonstarter on any vintage bari or bass mouthpiece - cut too narrow to ever really sit right on the table. Then too, they blew a little too freely on alto and tenor – people used to hard-cane, heavy-air playing said I sounded reedy at times. I tried Légères briefly, too, but they struck me as the Blue Vandorens from Hell: all resistance and no tone, and pretty much unworkable to boot.

All this led to me giving cane reeds another chance. Funnily enough, I found they were less trouble and lasted longer than I had remembered. They also offered a little more "core" to the sound across a variety of setups. I'd had some Alexander Superials sitting around that had occasionally played pretty well for me. With minimal break-in treatment, they became my favorite brand. I also tried Phat reeds and found them amazingly responsive, with some quirks (don't trust the clarinet reeds above high C - and no, clipping them doesn't help). Even Blue Vandorens were more workable than I remembered...except on alto or tenor. I'm not that hardcore.

To sum up, I am now 100% cane equipped again. Will I ever play synthetics again? I never say "never."

[NissanMarkVII]

I agree with the Legere reeds. I tried them (several strengths) and none worked for me. I do play on BARI* Med regularly on Alto Sax (been my main reed for the 6 out of 8 years I've been playing BARI brand reeds) and won't switch back to cane (for both Selmer Soloist mpc (C*), and Runyon Spoiler metal (7)). I've been playing a total of 16 years (too many bands/gigs to list). Recently I tried the "Fiberreed" brand (Med) for my RIA 6* metal mouthpiece on Tenor. This has been the best setup for me on this mouthpiece. I use the BARI* Med on my vintage hardrubber mpc on Tenor (3). Bari Sax I also use a Med BARI* on a Rico Royal Metalite (M7) and again, will not switch back to cane! Soprano Sax is another story. I switch from the Fiberreeds to E. Rousseau canes, depending on mouthpiece (plastic, metal, crystal) and venue.

[Hurling Frootmig]

I find myself playing fibracells more and more because of doubling and the fact that I can just put it on a start playing. For classical playing I find that I prefer the sound of Hemke's or Alexander's Classiques. Like Paul, I find that I keep coming back to cane.

[EllSyd]

Seems to me that if everybody hated synthetic reeds, nobody would buy them, the manufacturers would lose money on them, and quit making them.

Therefore, I submit that a sizable number of reed instrument players do not hate them, but in fact like them.

EllSyd (Fibracell user)

[sax_appeal]

I'm going to go buy Fibracells for alto and bari this weekend, just to see what they're like and then I will make a judgement based on the experience but I may need to try a few of them to know what they are really like.

[Doctormyeyes]

Here's a (54 year old. Yes, it's possible.) beginner's perspective.

After trying all the various Rico and Vandoren reeds I tried fibracells. I was immediately taken with how much easier it was to consistently get a good sound. Previously, when I was having trouble, I wasn't sure if it was me or the reed. With fibracells, I know it's my fault.

However... I began having trouble with accumulated spit gumming up my setup. While my technique might be at fault, last night I switched back to Rico Royals. The spit problem vanished, as the excess seems to be absorbed by the reed, whereas the fibracell is non porous. Additionally, at least with this one reed, my tone is deeper and fuller, especially at the low end of the scale.

I was also somewhat disappointed to find a significant variation between the two fibracell premiers I just got, one much easier to play than the other, which kind of defeats the whole purpose of the synthetic. Definitely less acceptable in a $9.00 reed than a $1.50 one.

So... my verdict is not yet in. Probably it never will be!

Hey, guys, is the spit my fault or theirs? Thanks.

[Frank D]

What makes you think they haven't gained acceptance? The fact that the synth reed manufacturers have stayed in business as long as they have indicates that there's enough market to support them.

Personally, I started playing Fibracells when I lived in Phoenix, where the lack of humidity caused my reeds to dry out while I was playing! I've since moved to Florida (plenty of humidity!), and am sticking with the Fibracells. I try cane periodically, but I always return to the Fibracell for sound, consistency and convenience.

[NissanMarkVII]

Since I have no Fibracell experience, I'll take your word for it. I know I spent 8 years (yes, 8!) trying to find a reed that would allow me to play low, loud, and altissimo on my Tenor RIA metal 6*. When the Harry Hartman Fiberreed debuted, I decided to give it a try. I had previously tried the following reeds on the RIA: 2-3.5 Rico Royal, MS-MH LaVoz, 2-3.5 VanDoran Blue Box, 2-3.5 RICO, MS-MH Legere, Med BARI, Med BARI*. None worked quite right, no matter the conditions. I then bought the top model of HH Fiberreeds in MS-MH strengths. I settled on the Med. They do only last 5 times longer than a cane, but to me, it's well worth the bucks for the sound I can now get out of my mpc! As stated earlier, I play on a BARI* Med on my vintage Hard Rubber mpc in all styles of music. I tried the standard BARI brand, and I hat ethem with a passion, but teh BARI* is totally different. Also as stated earlier, I play exclusively BARI* Med on Alto and Bari saxes. Can't pay me to play a cane there anymore!

[Teddy]

I have found Fibracells to work better on hard rubber or plastic MPC's.On metal MPC's I dont like the sound produced at all.I gave a fibracell to a freind who plays on a for fun basis,not profesionally.He was amazed and said it was "like cheating"as you could just pick up the horn and play.He was using an old Brillhart plastic peice and when he tried them with a Link he did'nt like it at all either.