Wanted: bass clarinet (preferably metal Kohlert!)

[MilanC]

I'm looking for a bass clarinet - ideally, it would be a metal Kohlert.
Of course, I might be interested in any other good horn (not wood, though - I might play outdoors quite a bit.)
I don't really mind if it's not in playable condition at the moment, tough I'd prefer being able to play it right away.
My budget is decent but by no means huge - i.e. a new Yamaha 221-II would be over my limits.

[SaxPlayer1004]

Email David Spiegenthal *xsp...* I think he has one

[MilanC]

Yes... however, I seriously doubt he considers selling his beloved Frankenhorn... ;)
Or do you mean he has another one?

[tictactux]

What's wrong with a good old Bundy? (You mention the Yamaha 221, so you don't appear to be fixated to metal only)
I'm just curious; I wouldn't sell mine...

[SaxPlayer1004]

I think he has another one, if not he usually has an old rubber kohlert or conn I think. Send him a message, the vintage Conn's are awesome

[David Spiegelthal]

Hi there, I figgered I should chime in and set the record straight --- I do have a metal Kohlert bass clarinet, the aforementioned "Frankenhorn", so named because of a very ugly but effective low-C extension I built for it out of copper plumbing pipe and assorted bass clarinet and tenor sax spare parts. It's not for sale because I need it for its low-C capability; I play semi-professionally and it's currently the only bass clarinet I have with the extended range.

I don't have any other metal bass clarinets at the moment; and the hard-rubber Kohlert I had was recently sold. I have an older wood Kohlert bass with standard range to low-Eb that COULD be for sale, but it's an outstanding player and I'm reluctant to let it go, so it would not be cheap!

I'm in the process of renovating (and improving) a hard-rubber Robert Malerne - Paris bass clarinet (standard low-Eb) which is branded "Conn" but was not actually made by Conn; although Conn built their own design up through WWII or so, afterwards they outsourced their bass and alto clarinets (as did many other companies) to Malerne. It will be a good bass clarinet, but not on the same level as Kohlert (which, IMO, is comparable to the older French Selmers). The Conn/Malerne is a single register vent design, similar to Noblets and nearly all Leblancs, which means it has a fine lower register and throat register but the clarion and altissimo are not as easy to produce and tend to have some intonation variability. I'll be asking around $800 for this instrument when it is ready.

[SaxPlayer1004]

Cue Frankenhorn

[MilanC]

Another SOTW member has one and sent me a PM about it, so in the end I might get just what I was looking for.


@tictactux
Actually, I don't want a modern plastic instrument, be it a Yamaha, a Bundy, or anything else. I was just saying that a new Yamaha 221II was a bit over my [ bass clarinet + good mouthpiece + shipping to Belgium ].

I'm not interested in metal bass clarinets only, but all I've read about the Kohlert was good, and I like its look.


@ David Spiegelthal
I'll probably be looking for some good tenor sax and bass clarinet mouthpieces in a few weeks.

[MilanC]

It was a bit too expensive for me (considering it needed an overhaul), so... still searching.

[MilanC]

In the end, I bought a hard rubber B&H Edgware (Kohlert stencil) for 375$. It needs a bit of work, but doesn't seem to require a full overhaul.
Now searching for a mouthpiece.

[SaxPlayer1004]

Oh, if someone wants to drool
http://cgi.ebay.com/Selmer-Pro-Metal-Bass-Clarinet-EX-Mint-cond_W0QQitemZ380185675730QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_De faultDomain_0?hash=item5884d507d2#ht_3836wt_1165

[Merlin]

Oh, if someone wants to drool
http://cgi.ebay.com/Selmer-Pro-Metal-Bass-Clarinet-EX-Mint-cond_W0QQitemZ380185675730QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_De faultDomain_0?hash=item5884d507d2#ht_3836wt_1165

Ya know, I actually did!

[David Spiegelthal]

The bass clarinet on eBay currently is NOT a Selmer, it is a Kohlert just like mine. The seller (who should know better) is listing it as a "Selmer" because the mouthpiece is a Selmer. The instrument itself is unmarked. I have one just like it, and mine is only engraved Kohlert on the bell. It's a very fine instrument but the seller (in my opinion) is asking too much money for it. If you want to spend that kind of money, buy mine instead -- mine has a curved extension to low-C added. See the "Frankenhorn" photo a few posts down.

[Merlin]

The bass clarinet on eBay currently is NOT a Selmer, it is a Kohlert just like mine. The seller (who should know better) is listing it as a "Selmer" because the mouthpiece is a Selmer. The instrument itself is unmarked. I have one just like it, and mine is only engraved Kohlert on the bell. It's a very fine instrument but the seller (in my opinion) is asking too much money for it. If you want to spend that kind of money, buy mine instead -- mine has a curved extension to low-C added. See the "Frankenhorn" photo a few posts down.

I just looked at the pics again - it does look like the body joints are stamped with the Selmer logo.

[tictactux]

I just looked at the pics again - it does look like the body joints are stamped with the Selmer logo.
Yes, I've seen that (near the lyre clamp) as well.
Could be that Selmer outsourced that one to Kohlert, one never knows these days.

[David Spiegelthal]

If it has a "Selmer" stamp on it, it's automatically worth $2000 more.

[David Spiegelthal]

I stand corrected, I should have looked at the additional photos in the auction ad before I opened my mouth. It really is a Selmer metal bass clarinet and is very slightly different than my Kohlert (but remarkably similar).

If you want to spend Max Bux, buy the metal Selmer bass and add a Kaspar mouthpiece that's also currently on eBay, for the low low 'buy it now' price of "only" $1200. Think of how impressed your friends will be!

[MilanC]

Received my 'B&H Edgware' hard rubber Kohlert stencil yesterday. Bought on eBay for 375$ (though shipping and customs raised the total price quite a bit).

Needs some repair, but in the meantime, I managed to attach a spring under the C#/G# key (does look slightly weird...), wrapped a layer of paper around the neck cork to make it fit better, stuffed a horrible plastic tenor mouthpiece into a bit bit of PVC tubing into the neck receiver, hot-glued (!) together the snapped low Eb key, did some minimal adjustments to the register vent system (i.e. turned one screw).

Tone is already quite good, though a bit spread and and airy in the clarion due to the 'mouthpiece' (it has the same problems on sax, but with harshness and poor low note response as a bonus)
Anyway, every note from low Eb to high clarion C or D plays easily without any voicing, and with, the sky is the limit (that is, when I do find fingerings). Legato twelfths are absolutely no problem (still without voicing).

Kohlert basses are the real deal :D

[MilanC]

* 'neck receiver' actually meant 'mouthpiece receiver on the neck'

[David Spiegelthal]

Milan, forgive me but I must ask: Why are you using a tenor sax mouthpiece on a bass clarinet?

[MilanC]

'cause I don't have a bass clarinet mouthpiece yet, and really wanted to try playing it anyway. :TGNCHK:
(In the end I'll have to buy one locally, as customs tend to hold things two to three weeks, and charge quite a lot of money for 'processing'...)

[TomCoffey]

This thread has been interesting to me. There are a lot of ways to contribute to making music, and two of the most important are making and repairing instruments. Neither vocation brings as much attention to the practitioner as playing, or conducting, or recording. On the other hand, the rest of us would not get very far without the people who make and repair instuments.
I recently bought an old (and, frankly kind of beat up) bassoon marked "Kohlert Graslitz" from a local music store. It had been on the wall for a couple of years. When they got it down for me, I could see chips in the finish, as well as bare spots where the finish was scraped away. The bocal has a kink, and it wears a somewhat odd assortment of mismatched pads, most of which might be sax pads. A lot of keys are loose or don't line up right.
Here is the interesting part, at least to me: the Kohlert brothers, and their apprentices and craftsmen, lived in a different part of the world, and at that, a world not linked by computers. That world was interrupted in a terrible way by World War Two, and their company had to move from Graslitz to Winnenden, and operate very differently in the aftermath of that war. Ultimately, unforseen econmic events in the years following the war took the company out of business. Eventually, a generation of Kohlert brothers did not marry, and that branch of the family line ended.
Now I wonder what the Kohlerts and the people who worked with and for them would think, if the saw us cyber-salivating over their craftsmanship, and buying and restoring their instruments. I think they would feel a kinship with our generation of craftsmen, like David Spiegelthal, who posted above, and Dan Hoenigman, my repairman here in Cleveland, who learned his craft at King and now will make my "rescue bassoon" a player again. And I can't help but think that the makers would take a certain pride in seeing their creations played, and fixed, and bought and sold and written about and admired, today.
Sorry for the real long post at the end of a thread, but this is a very satisfying turn of events, it seems to me.

[RS]

So Selmer actually made a pro model metal bass? Damn. I want one.

[David Spiegelthal]

Hey Randy, would you settle for a metal Kohlert instead? Give me a buzz sometime..... dspieg@earthlink.net