correct pronunciation of buescher

[danodownunder]

Is it booscher ? is it of german origin, sorry to be pedantic but if i am going to play one of these can somone tell me how to say it. :( :(

[Jerry K.]

Excellent question which will likely generate several answers. I call them Busher and a friend says Bisher and you say Boosher. Got me, but I'll probably keep calling them Bushers.

[MonchMan]

From Steve Goodson's web site:

http://www.saxgourmet.com/buescher.htm

The very first saxophone manufactured in the United States was made by Gus Buescher (it's properly pronounced "Bisher") in 1888 when he was employed by the C. G. Conn Company.

[paulwl]

The Pedantics (a group I've sat in with many a time) will be arguing about this forever. Because the Buescher Co. itself couldn't decide. 1930s ads said, "Say 'Bisher'." 1950s ads said, "Say "Busher'."

I like "Bisher" myself, but I used to like "Bewsher" before I knew it was wrong, rong, worng...

[stitch]

We had a long discussion about this on the old board, and for a bit of variety debated the correct pronunciation of Keilwerth too!

[Bill08690]

My father played in the big band era so I asked him about this and he said "Busher" was the way most players pronunced it then.

[Grumps]

I know players out there who will judge you by how you pronounce Buescher. But that's alright..... I judge them by their neck straps.

[Hornlip]

HA!! I judge them by them by the cut of their reed. . . .meanwhile, I've heard "Bisher" and "Busher" used, interchangeably. I think it's probably "bisher", but in proper German the "i" sound probably woudn't sound as flat and abrupt as a U.S. English speaker would pronouce it. I think it may be more like "Beesher" or "Beesheah"

Meanwhile, I'll settle for "lovely". 8)

[Joseph Boucher]

Maybe the name is of French origin. Mine is and the last four letters (CHER) are pronounced 'SHAY' in French. My name is'BOUCHER' and in French is pronounced 'BOO-SHAY'. I know in French Cajun cooking they will make a 'RUE' which is prononced 'REW', or 'UE' is the same as 'EW'. The 'S' is silent. Therefore, put it all together and you have...BEWSHAY or Buescher. Almost sounds like my name. That's my quess. Really I'm just bored. Joe.

[Joseph Boucher]

ALSO, in the olden days of Europe, many French people were driven out of France because they gave up the Roman Catholic religion for Calvinism, Lutherism, Protestantism, whatever, and settled in England, Belgium, and Germany. Was Gus of German ancestry? Yup, I'm bored. I think I'll go now to the wood shed and toot my horn. Joe.

[saxtek]

Nope. It's German. UE is an American way of spelling the German U with an umlaut. Say OO with your lips, and short I with your tongue simultaneously. Sounds a little like BOOSHER and a little like BISHER, but not exactly like either one.

[Hornlip]

Hmm. I vote for Saxtek's take.

[Claus]

Saxtek is right.

The correct pronuciation is hard to describe, since there is no equivalent of u-umlaut in the English language.

I anyone is interested, I could record a short mp3 of "Buescher" and add "Keilwerth" as well.

But I'd rather own a Buescher than be able to pronounce it correctly... :(

Claus

[MusicMan]

You say toMAYto and I say toMAHto... :lol:

I'll take my Bueschers, Bishers, Bushers, Booshers, etc over most of the chaff any day.

[paulwl]

Ah for the internet, where any discussion can free-range...say, from pronunciation into European migration patterns. Who's to say Bueschers weren't once Bouchers?

I poked around on Goolge for people named Buescher. Didn't find much of use. I did visit one site dedicated to a teeny farming village called Buer, in Lower Saxony, which sent several Bueschers to America...as well as Niehauses and (my name) Lindemeyers. Hmm, a cradle of saxophony in Saxony?

[danodownunder]

Asolutly FABULOUS you people realy enlivened a wet autum evening in New Zealand long live the web, And i am so glad that i am none the wiser as I should have been in the shed playing the bloody booishuecher :lol:
dano.

[danodownunder]

Ive got it its Bluescher. yeahhhh!!!

[paulwl]

No. That's a shoe!

[saxtek]

By the way, despite my earlier post about the umlaut, I don't pronounce the brand name that way. Since 9 out of 10 people I know say Bush-er, I say it the same way. It gets past the semantics and into the important part of the discussion faster.

[mutha potamus]

I thought they changed the correct pronounciation to "Sell-more"...:Shocked:...or something like that.

[CashSax]

glad you guys figured it out.. &;?)`~

[soreliprick]

Just be sure you don't call me late for supper....or is it dinner?

[singlereed]

I thought it was a bad derivation of a German name that would more likely have looked like 'Beuscher' (ie e and u reversed) which would sound more like 'boysher'.

Still, I can't work out you Americans, why is 'Titleist' pronounced 'titelist' - something to do with avoiding sniggers from saying 't*t'?! I don't see why birdwatchers can say it and golfers can't! We have watches sold here called 'Weil' (ie 'vile') but they say 'veal'. :roll:

[Andres]

Nope. It's German. UE is an American way of spelling the German U with an umlaut. Say OO with your lips, and short I with your tongue simultaneously. Sounds a little like BOOSHER and a little like BISHER, but not exactly like either one.

So, it's Bee-YOU-shurr...just say it really fast :dazed:

I usually just say Bush-er.

[paulwl]

I'm sticking with Bisher. Partly because that's how people who actually have the name say it. Partly because I like the sound of it (kinda like the horn!)

Serious classical folks say Busher. I've yet to meet one who didn't.

[Dave dix]

Gus buescher was German and was pronounced bisher,but who gives a toss their saxes are great.The weren,t as popular in the uk as Conn (probably because the us bands brought over conn saxophones during ww2 instead of buescher as of the german origin)
Dave

[Kellyp(BC)]

I just had a " Bisher" Bass sax come in my shop for some work. This is going to be fun!

[frobig]

You know it's been brought to my attention that some brands didn't get a lot of play in certain regions of the country, back when national distribution wasn't as strong as it is now. I know a guy who says Buffet clarinets were almost unknown in Michigan as late as the seventies. And of course people from Texas don't sound like people from Maine, for that matter people from New York City don't sound like people from Albany or Buffalo. So I'm sure regionalism has a lot to do with the pronunciation of "Büscher." By the way, if that sounds French to you, do you think the beer from St. Louis sounds French too?
Gus Buescher was from a German background, but can anybody tell us what his citizenship was? And who doesn't know somebody with a non-English last name that's been butchered since their ancestors came here? Here in Boston, there's a sportscaster named Joe Castiglione, whose name is pronounced cas-tig-lee-OWN. Wanna bet that's not how his great-great granddaddy said it? I think the whole sax world should just leave the whole thing alone and call Bueschers whatever they want. Then we can concentrate on talking about how overrated Selmers are, like we want to do.

[Sigmund451]

Im glad its not hard to say Martin

[SAXISMYAXE]

uhhh Dave, Conn is a German name too. I don't think the German name had much to do with the shortage of Buescher horns in the U.K..

[paulwl]

Gus Buescher was from a German background, but can anybody tell us what his citizenship was?
He was reportedly born in Ohio.

Conn is a German name too.
Only if it's spelled "Kahn" :D ..."Conn" is Irish (it means "chief" in Gaelic).

[SAXISMYAXE]

Paulwl, After a little research, I'll be damned if you aren't right! We had a friend of the family who hailed from Berlin with the surname Conn. I guess the Irish really get around. I'm half German, half Celtic(Welsh, Scottish, Irish), so either way I'm happy! Cheers.

[michaelbaird]

However it is pronounced, I'd like to say thanks for my TT 1923 soprano. The action is incredibly fast, intonation is excellent, and the tone is perfect.

[saxbeginner]

I love German pronunciation,(I did a German degree) especially the umlauts (Buescher)!!

If it is actually a german word, as it appears to be, then Germans would have said it the same way Klaus and Andres explained it. Maybe Klaus should've done a sound bite to clear up all this 'bisher' stuff!!

[SocratesMinor]

Buescher FaceBook Page!

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?v=wall&viewas=0&gid=2218355966

Among those who bear this name, the main debate (at times heated) is between "Bisher" and "Busher", with a minority of purists who suggest self-education on the authentic pronunciation of the German U-umlaut (Ü).

[SocratesMinor]

Hear German Guy Prounouncing U-umlaut (Ü)

http://www.europa-pages.com/lessons/german-pronunciation.html

OK, great, brings me full circle. Started off with "Boosher". Felt educated when I started pronouncing it "Bisher". Was open minded when others argued for "Busher". But if you listen to this guy, you have to admit it sounds a whole lot more like "Boosher", just with a numb tongue.

[rim shot]

It´s pretty difficult to get that German diphthong going- it´s not a sound that English-speaking people are familiar with.
Yeah, Saxtek- I learned it from a college German teacher- who taught that it is pronounced with the tongue in the position of "eee" and the lips formed as "ooo".

SocratesMinor´s pronunciation is that of a native speaker- maybe we can get him to say Buescher... instead of only words beginning with the umlaut.

For those who don´t care, or are simply [Impnt] when people start discussing this- I say: If it doesn´t interest you, then just tune out.
I think it´s pretty cool- that folks really want to know the correct pronunciation.

[click]

LEO Results for "Bücher":
http://dict.leo.org/ende?lp=ende&p=WaIqwA&search=B%FCcher

[saxphil]

I won't even attempt a Buescher pronunciation.

I thought the "g" in Yanagisawa was pronounced softly, as in "gist".

Instead, most use a hard "g" pronunciation, as in "give".

[ranran4]

If only some of us put as much effort into actually playing the horns...

[gary]

FWIW (harrumph) -

In long, detailed discussions in the past the consensus seemed to be Bisher. When all else fails, fall back contemporaneous sources. They were an interview and one of Buescher's earliest ads. Folks need to keep in mind that Americans don't always pronounce their family names the same way as they would be pronounced in the old country, so comments about the original name perhaps having been Bücher and how to pronounce umlauts are sometimes irrelevant. The question is not, how is this pronounced in its original language/nation but, how does this American family pronounce it. They get the final vote. ;)

I had a friend named Haus. He swore it was pronounced "haas". There is a German name Haas so you are left with the choice. Knowing full well that "Haus" is pronounced exactly the way it is written, do you call this guy "haus" anyway, or "haas" the way his family said. Keep in mind that at Ellis Island and with other American ports of entry, pronunciations were usually kept correct while the Immigration official may have written it differently.

I pronounce it "Busher" for the same reason I am now pronouncing "Keilworth" and not "Keilvhert". Communication with the un-cognoscenti. :D

[SAXISMYAXE]

FWIW (harrumph) -

Folks need to keep in mind that Americans don't always pronounce their family names the same way as they would be pronounced in the old country. :D

BOY, is that ever the truth! My Prussian surname means "sailor", however if not pronounced in the correct German fashion, it can mean something quite different in English.;)

[rim shot]

There is a German Family name Buescher. I have never seen nor heard of anyone named Bücher.

FWIW (harrumph) -
The question is not, how is this pronounced in its original language/nation but, how does this American family pronounce it.


Certainly.
I would tend to say Busher- because I see it as phonetically closer to the Original.:D

[rim shot]

If only some of us put as much effort into actually playing the horns...

Kind of a broad assumption, there... no?

[gary]

FWIW (harrumph) -

Folks need to keep in mind that Americans don't always pronounce their family names the same way as they would be pronounced in the old country. :D

BOY, is that ever the truth! My Prussian surname means "sailor", however if not pronounced in the correct German fashion, it can mean something quite different in English.;)

. . . as in bodily fluids? :twisted:

[SAXISMYAXE]

FWIW (harrumph) -

Folks need to keep in mind that Americans don't always pronounce their family names the same way as they would be pronounced in the old country. :D

BOY, is that ever the truth! My Prussian surname means "sailor", however if not pronounced in the correct German fashion, it can mean something quite different in English.;)

. . . as in bodily fluids? :twisted:
You just had to go there, didn't you.8-):D

[gary]

You just had to go there, didn't you.8-):D

Sterling Hayden would be proud. :salute:

General Jack D. Ripper -Dr. Strangelove

[SAXISMYAXE]

You just had to go there, didn't you.8-):D

Sterling Hayden would be proud. :salute:

General Jack D. Ripper -Dr. Strangelove

I deny them my essence, Mandrake. ;)

[Oric Muso]

The Bisher thing seems exclusive to America. I've not heard UK people use that version.

[zappysax57]

ive heard, oddly enough, bwesher.... haha...

[rsclosson]

I have always said "Bewsher" and always will. No matter how wrong it is. 8-)

[SaxTon]

There is a German Family name Buescher. I have never seen nor heard of anyone named Bücher.

FWIW (harrumph) -
The question is not, how is this pronounced in its original language/nation but, how does this American family pronounce it.


Certainly.
I would tend to say Busher- because I see it as phonetically closer to the Original.:D

Ich stimme ein!
US has always butchered the original pronouncation and/or spelling of German origin names as people immigrated. What really matters is how the family pronounces it as they adapted it to the US. In this case I have no idea.

Busher with short u seems logical and more natural to me to work best in English. However, one can make a case for "Bisher" as a crude attempt at the sounding like the original German umlaut "ue" pronouncation.

Then again the family adapted an American English pronounciation as felt confortable with as they waltzed out of Ellis Island. There are milliions of examples of americanized names that more or less sound like the original. Also many wanted to make their name sound more "American" as in the case of my family.

[rim shot]

So your true name is Sachstoen?

[SaxTon]

So your true name is Sachstoen?

Herr Rim shot: you are very close: "Ton" means sound and has no umlaut in singular only in plural . "Toene" means tones or sounds but is actually spelled using the umlaut dots not "oe"

[gary]

"Toene" means tones or sounds but is actually spelled using the umlaut dots not "oe"

. . . and for those writing without umlauts in their text apparatus?

[SaxTon]

"Toene" means tones or sounds but is actually spelled using the umlaut dots not "oe"

. . . and for those writing without umlauts in their text apparatus?

genau!

[Chulove]

Just learn to pronounce Rehcseub. Then say it backwards.

[gary]

"Toene" means tones or sounds but is actually spelled using the umlaut dots not "oe"

. . . and for those writing without umlauts in their text apparatus?

genau!

genau? Nicht genug? Pronounce this! Ä Ö Ü ß :twisted:

[rim shot]

imagine the pronunciation if Buescher were from Saxony.....

[saintsday]

This may not be definitive about the family, but it is pretty close for the saxophone brand.http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i262/saintsday/IMG_5965.jpg

[rim shot]

Good one.
it´s close enough for me...

[Sax Magic]

Saintsday,
How old is this photo? Based upon the models listed in the photo, perhaps early 1960's?
Sax Magic

[saintsday]

Saintsday,
How old is this photo? Based upon the models listed in the photo, perhaps early 1960's?
Sax Magic

The photo was taken today. I think you are right about when the banner was made.

[ansyf125]

I always thought it was Bee-ew-Shay

[SAXISMYAXE]

I always thought it was Bee-ew-Shay
That would suggest a French provenance, which in incorrect for this German surname.

[ansyf125]

I always thought it was Bee-ew-Shay
That would suggest a French provenance, which in incorrect for this German surname.

Well, french being a native language, I guess it was only expected...

[Oric Muso]

Maybe we can agree that it isn't Bisher?

[gary]

Maybe we can agree that it isn't Bisher?

No, quite the opposite. Bisher is the only pronounciation that has a source contemporary with Buescher that gives a pronounciation for that name - in the US, by that family.

[Pete Thomas]

Maybe we can agree that it isn't Bisher?

No, quite the opposite. Bisher is the only pronounciation that has a source contemporary with Buescher that gives a pronounciation for that name - in the US, by that family.

Also helpful for anyone from England who wants the correct pronounciation, but is not familiar with how to say "ue" or"Ü" in German. (Or pssibly Beesher)

[warp x]

Maybe we can agree that it isn't Bisher?

Yes, of course.

[gary]

OK, I'll say it one last time. Sources contemporaneous with Mr. Buescher put the pronunciation as "bisher". Whether or not "eu" is supposed to be pronounced as "Ü" is irrelevant because it seems that the family in the US did not pronounce the umlaut, buescher being the German spelling for büscher, notwithstanding. It doesn't matter what the correct German pronunciation is if the American family changed the pronunciation.

[rim shot]

C´mon Gary, think about it this way...
maybe we´ll be able to collectively help them to connect with their German heritage an end the all this nonsensical "bishering".:twisted:

[gary]

Just for grins, here's a facebook discussion of living Bueschers on their name:
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?v=wall&viewas=0&gid=2218355966

[rim shot]

Heh... I liked this one...

Funny thing here is the northern part of the county will pronouce it with the "isher" sound and the lower part of county with the "oosher", and we...'re only talking about a distance of 15 miles.

[saintsday]

Very cool. Thanks Gary.

The only real consensus seems to be that it is not Boo-sher or Bew-sher.

[Enviroguy]

Hey my German ancestors went from being the people that live by the river ford to the fourth man in line. So I can play a "Busher" if I want to. I've earned it.