Super 20 Fan Club

[bobsax]

Do you guys mind if I join the club, ?
not at all but you must read all previous posts!!!!:shock:;)

[Classax]

LOL..... I mean:salute:

[sxmix]

Signing up for the club... I have had my Super 20 tenor (394xxx) for about 6 years. It has always been good to me, but it recently took the backseat to my Series III. Or, I guess I should say that the two of them are sharing the frontseat? Either way, i still love my 20.

[-88-]

LeBlanc System. Monster horn.

Do you mean the Rationale? Monster horn for techs too, but you have a rare one, good luck. And it would be most interesting to hear from you a year from now about the alternative fingerings. Good/Bad/other.

Maybe you could start a thread on LeBlanc System, Rationale

[warp x]

There seems to be some confusion about the type names. The Rationale (or Rationel) is a much earlier model, I believe they only made an alto. I have a System, which most people call a Rationale. In any case it is pretty rare. I will be posting a review, just can't seem to find the time to finish it.

On topic: Like I said my Super 20 is sold, to this good friend (http://jasperblom.com/) of mine. You might want to check him out.

[sweetblood]

hi everyone,
i play a super 20 (#287,xxx) and i am still madly in love with it after more than 10 years - it only gets deeper.
before i acquired it, my horn had been through hell. it was evidently flattened in a bike accident. major repairs really saved it, and i have been fine tuning the setup to get it just right. the only issue that remains less than ideal is the double-socket neck, which does not form a perfectly tight bond with the body - there is always a little play.
my repairman has improved the situation by actually expanding the ring on the body, but he didn't want to take it too far. for a few weeks now i have been wrapping a double layer of teflon tape around the ring and it makes a huge difference. many of the altissimo notes that would tend to break or come out weakly now pop with an amazing brilliance.
needless to say, wrapping teflon every time i attach the neck is a slight nuisance, and i do feel that it slightly dampens the mid-range.
i am putting this out there in hopes of hearing your feedback and ultimately resolving this problem permanently. would it be possible to weld a thin layer of metal to the ring, giving it that extra thickness that it seems to need?
any input would be greatly appreciated.
thanks!

[milandro]

I am not a repair-man but I've heard of receiver and tenon surgery being performed in these cases (don't know if it is possible to reconstruct the receiver or if you need a donor receiver -and a donor tenon?-which might not be original).

[Ike Webkins]

received my super20 bari this morning, but it would need some fixing and tuning..... so it's time to wait...:|

[luvkingsax]

I still have my King Super 20 Tenor after owning it for almost 30 years and unfortunately, wearing some of the original laquer off by hauling it around in the original case. I originally wanted a Mark VI because everyone told me that that was the horn of horns. But My friend German George (He used to make illegal copies of Bose 901's, remember them?) sold me a 333xxx tenor he got on trade in. I fell in love. It was beautiful. Full pearls, engraving, huge fat sound and above all the fastest action on a horn that no one matches to this day. I have semi retired my super 20 so that it doesn't get any more wear and tear on it than it has. Instead I have been looking for a King Zephyr tenor that has the double socket neck, eyebrow guards, and rounded keys (much more comfortable to play than the earlier flat key models). So far I have been unsuccessful, either the price is too high or the horn is trashed,but I'll keep looking. I now own two early 50's Zephyr altos and just recently bought an overhauled relaquered late 50's Zephyr bari. C'mon you bari players. Is the King bari the baddest bari or what? The bell is huge, the biggest on a bari I've ever seen. I play this with a cheap Rico Royal Metallite plastic mouthpiece that is wide open and it roars. Although I have strayed from the true faith by currently playing a Yani 901 tenor I still use my King S20 tenor for special occasons and recording. All in all ther is no other saxophone that plays like a King!

[Robert_Allan]

hi everyone,
i play a super 20 (#287,xxx) and i am still madly in love with it after more than 10 years - it only gets deeper.
before i acquired it, my horn had been through hell. it was evidently flattened in a bike accident. major repairs really saved it, and i have been fine tuning the setup to get it just right. the only issue that remains less than ideal is the double-socket neck, which does not form a perfectly tight bond with the body - there is always a little play.
my repairman has improved the situation by actually expanding the ring on the body, but he didn't want to take it too far. for a few weeks now i have been wrapping a double layer of teflon tape around the ring and it makes a huge difference. many of the altissimo notes that would tend to break or come out weakly now pop with an amazing brilliance.
needless to say, wrapping teflon every time i attach the neck is a slight nuisance, and i do feel that it slightly dampens the mid-range.
i am putting this out there in hopes of hearing your feedback and ultimately resolving this problem permanently. would it be possible to weld a thin layer of metal to the ring, giving it that extra thickness that it seems to need?
any input would be greatly appreciated.
thanks!


If your neck or tenon cannot be resized to fit properly, which seems unlikely, then if I were you I'd find an experienced machinist to fabricate a new sleeve for the neck, and then have an experienced repairman resolder the new connection to the neck. Others may advise you to replace the tenon on the horn itself, which may be a simpler and more desireable solution. I don't know which would be better; I think it would depend on the condition of the neck joint.

For an experienced machinist, and for a truly experienced repairman, it should be a fairly easy fix.

[plant]

This guy is/was selling a new double socket tenon. Might be worth a shot.

http://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?t=85255

[Souportwenty]

I have a Keilworth gig bag that fits my '57 S20 very well. I also love the way this horn can "shift gears". I often use a JJHR7*. I can cover many styles with this piece and a Eddy Daniel's lig. I put plasiticover 3's on and it gives me a little 'buzz" but always gives the impression there is power to spare here. It's sort of like the rumble of a big block eight cylinder from the 60's. Ya gotta respect that sound...

[Yellowhorn]

Is yours a silversonic or all-brass one?


I have a Keilworth gig bag that fits my '57 S20 very well. I also love the way this horn can "shift gears". I often use a JJHR7*. I can cover many styles with this piece and a Eddy Daniel's lig. I put plasiticover 3's on and it gives me a little 'buzz" but always gives the impression there is power to spare here. It's sort of like the rumble of a big block eight cylinder from the 60's. Ya gotta respect that sound...

[CuriousSax]

Heya Guys!

I Have an educated Question for ya.

Im in the works for lookin for a new Sax. I've been lookin for a King Super 20 but ive been looking at silversonic and being tempted. My friend has a super 20 so i know the sound. Now! Is theyre any difference between the Super20 and the Super 20 Silversonic whether it be tone wise and so on? I asked a friend and he said its not the same i fugured id run it by the owners. kk plz respond soon thx:D if you neeed to know the serial # for the silversonic im looking at is 376720.

Thx. CuriousSax8-)

[mramoni]

I am privileged to have an Alto (376xxx). An amazing work of art.

[CuriousSax]

It plays well?

Ive heard the earlier the more mellow the later the brighter w/ Super 20 horns

Do you think The normal and the Silver Sonic have any differences?

Because im ready to scoop 1 up

[-88-]

CuriousSax: while some people say the silversonic is different (I had a silversonic alto I just sold), I say two things:

1) *most* people would be hard put to stand in a room listening between the two and be able to differentiate which is which.

2) if you like the sound of the horn that counts oceans more than any single factor.

The great thing about Silversonics are they will hold their resale value better than any other King. Plus, they're gorgeous. If you can afford it, and you and your ears like the horn, then buy it. They're getting more rare with every years passing.

Yellowhorn on this thread has a couple of S-20's. Why don't you PM him.

[CuriousSax]

:lowbd:Thanks -88- i think ill do just that :D

Thx Guys for all your help:line6:

[CuriousSax]

:treble:Hey guys!:treble:
:bass:Me again:bass:

Ill get to the point here!:TGNCHK:

Im intrested in Buying a King Super 20 Silversonic Alto Sax
If anyone has one that theyre willing to sell please reply on the board

:line0:I dont think im looking for any specific serial # but leaving it would help.
im not asking for mint but i dont want one that needs heavy repair.:lowbd:

:space3:Id need to see pics if youre willing to sell:space5:

:Dkk guys if you know anyone have them reply or pm me:D

:space0:Also could anyone give me a link or any video in which i could hear a Silversonic in action? thatd be swell:space2:

8-)Thanks!8-)

[bobsax]

I'd trade mine:shock:
<--------------

for one of these.
http://www.eppelsheim.com/kontrabass_klarinette.php?lang=en
:color:

[CuriousSax]

Ehhh tempting offer but i dont think i can even afford that baby to trade!:( lol

i was looking more along the lines of buying from someone but any other ideas let me know:D

Thanks.;)

[Turnaround]

...Is there any difference between the Super20 and the Super 20 Silversonic whether it be tone wise and so on?...

The difference is about the sound of the coin. A brass coin has less of a weighty sound than a silver one. :shock:8-)

But as far as the horns are concerned, if you want IMO the thickest S20 sound, go for anything before 295XXX, if you want an expensive S20 (and specially Silversonic) go for anything between 305XXX and 340XXX. If you want a good solid horn, buy anything that you have a chance to play on that floats your boat with a serial number after 340XXX. Good luck with your search.

[Iddo]

Now what I was wondering, is how the different era S20's are compared to other saxes.

What I mean is, although they are indeed very different animals, many ppl confessed to not wanting to trade their s20 for any MKVI. In other words, the S20 is considered to b e equal in 'league' to that most famous of saxes. However, most ppl saying that seem to own Silversonics or at least Cleveland-era horns.

Now, we know that there is no hard rule to distillate out of the difference between early and later s20's, other than that maybe the former tend to be a bit darker in sound than the latter. Still, the silversonics are better regarded than the 'cheaped'-down later versions. My questions concerns the comparison of the horn: even when you think the difference between early and late S20's is relatively large, do you still position later s20's in the same league as e.g. a MKVI? Or is for you just that difference the reason that you feel it doesn't hold up and you'd rather choose a good MKVI over a later s20?

Just to get some ideas straight.

[Grumps]

I'll take a shot at this Iddo. I'd been playing a VII tenor for well over twenty years. When someone gave me an old Martin stencil for my kid, it brought back the old memories of the vintage horns the guys in my father's old band would lend me; or in some cases, give me. So from that point on, I was looking for other tenor options. I tried some VI tenors at USA Horn and not surprisingly, they all beat my VII. Now I did have a deal fall through on a devalued, but very playable older VI that would have been a fine horn, but I left to continue my quest. However, said quest took a detour when I tried a vintage Conn tenor at a Maryland SOTW get together some years back and not long thereafter, I ended up with a 10M. I still play that horn for more posh jobs, but when I later sold my VII in favor of a beater '69 Silversonic to use as a back up and bar horn, quite frankly, I'm favoring the King. To me, the keywork of my King tenor is very slick and there's nothing like its high end. It makes the 10M seem clunky in comparison, I never liked the proximity of the G and G# key on the VI tenor, quite frankly, though I can't deny they're generally fantastic horns. Now I could never turn down a vintage Selmer tenor, but if it came to a preference in playing, given my path to my later Silversonic, I'd have to go with that.

[brasscane]

I have only tried three VIs (plus a single SBA) and three S20s, one Cleveland below 400K and two Eastlakes below 500K (plus a garden variety of other horns, including Selmer VII, S80I, II, III & Ref 54, Keilwerths, Mauriats, Conns, Buescher). For the money, I would say that there is no better sounding mass manufactured horn than an early Eastlake S20. Nothing cheap about them either. You don't play the engraving of the keycups, the gold inlay, or the pearls in the side keys. As far as I know, nothing was cheapened about the construction, the body tubing, silver soldered tone holes, keywork, except perhaps for the double socket neck, which I don't understand the advantage of. Maybe the earlier S20s sound better compared to the later ones. I wouldn't know but the later ones (below 500K) are definitely a steal at the going rate.

BTW, please check out this (http://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?t=99382) thread and reply if you have had a bad experience with the bell-to-body brace being pushed in on a S20.

[Mactenor]

:treble:Hey guys!:treble:
:bass:Me again:bass:

Ill get to the point here!:TGNCHK:

Im intrested in Buying a King Super 20 Silversonic Alto Sax
If anyone has one that theyre willing to sell please reply on the board

:line0:I dont think im looking for any specific serial # but leaving it would help.
im not asking for mint but i dont want one that needs heavy repair.:lowbd:

:space3:Id need to see pics if youre willing to sell:space5:

:Dkk guys if you know anyone have them reply or pm me:D

:space0:Also could anyone give me a link or any video in which i could hear a Silversonic in action? thatd be swell:space2:

8-)Thanks!8-)

YOUTUBE has a video of Dwayne Eddy playing "REBEL ROUSER". Jim Horn is playing a Silversonsic on this video.

[CuriousSax]

thats another quick questiob!
For an alto speaking here,
what do you mean the sound is darker, lighter, cutting etc?
Anyone mind clearing that up for m?
i never quiiite got the concept

thanks :-)

[CuriousSax]

And does anyone know how high the serial #s go up? i have a guy saying the serial # is in the 500s does that sound right and would it be a good horn?

[sxmix]

And does anyone know how high the serial #s go up? i have a guy saying the serial # is in the 500s does that sound right and would it be a good horn?

We'd need more information to be sure, but that would be an Eastlake Super 20, probably mid-1970s? If it's in good shape, it's probably a nice horn. Not as valuable as the older ones though.

[JL]

do you still position later s20's in the same league as e.g. a MKVI? Or is for you just that difference the reason that you feel it doesn't hold up and you'd rather choose a good MKVI over a later s20?

Just to get some ideas straight.

I don't think it's a matter of early or late Super20s vs MKVI, or that a Super20 is 'better' than a MKVI, or vice versa.

The fact is, a Super 20 is different from a MKVI. The reason some people prefer one over the other is because of that difference, not because one is better than the other. Some like the sound/feel of a VI, some prefer the sound/feel of a Super20 (of course many of those who prefer one over the other will say the one they prefer is better).

And the same can be said for any number of other horns in relation the the MKVI. I actually can't really say for sure whether I prefer my Buescher Aristocrat to my VI. They are different, and some days I prefer one, some days I prefer the other. I almost bought a Silversonic from a friend at one time because it sounded different from my VI and I liked it a lot. But not enough to meet his price.

[skippy]

Well said, JL.

[CuriousSax]

Hey guys

Me again!

Anyone have any opinions with Super 20 Cleveland o. Silver-sonic Altos?
Even if you have a tenor what the view in general?
This horns # is 376XXX

thanks

[blackfrancis]

My main tenor is a Super 20 (not Silversonic) 333xxx. I've played it for 28 years and it's as good as it gets. Great sound, great action, flexible style-wise, well built and very durable (you won't need JBT's warranty and parts on this baby!)- may be missing some lacquer and I wore a hole in it down by the rh thumbrest, but I wouldn't trade her for the world!

[martysax]

My main tenor is a Super 20 (not Silversonic) 333xxx. I've played it for 28 years and it's as good as it gets. Great sound, great action, flexible style-wise, well built and very durable (you won't need JBT's warranty and parts on this baby!)- may be missing some lacquer and I wore a hole in it down by the rh thumbrest, but I wouldn't trade her for the world!

I'm totally with you. You don't need Silver bells to play with balls!

Regarding the thumb hole, Emilio placed a leather patch in the area where my right thumb sits. It's comfortable and doesn't wear.

[CuriousSax]

Lol oh i know! Ive played a friends Super 20. That baby sings! Im only going for the silversonic because i have a friend willing to sell and thats the version he has so thats why i asked in the beginning is their a difference in tone on the alto side.

[Stan]

I've joined the Club two days ago. Wow what a horn!!!!!!!!!!! :D
I am so happy!

Alto "very early" Super20, full pearls and great sound

Stan

[bobsax]

Hi Stan
congratulations on your new baby:)
If you don't mind me asking;);)
What did it cost?
Mine could use an overhaul and to have it done by SAXWORX would be well over 1K and if after the overhaul I didn't like it and wanted to sell I probably wouldn't make up the difference.

I see so few for sale it's hard to know what they're worth.
A Silversonic on eBay recently went for 3060
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=250381356900

Mine's a 295XXX from the 40's (I think)

[Stan]

Hi bobsax and thank you.
I will send you a PM concerning the price.
It will require too some work but pads and mechanics are ok and plays very well... I have placed my five digit VI in its case :).
Its worth having it repaired if it plays.
All the best,

Stan

[bobsax]

YOUTUBE has a video of Dwayne Eddy playing "REBEL ROUSER". Jim Horn is playing a Silversonsic on this video.

It took awhile but I think this is it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGxDu5biqgM


Hi bobsax and thank you.
I will send you a PM concerning the price.
It will require too some work but pads and mechanics are ok and plays very well... I have placed my five digit VI in its case :).
Its worth having it repaired if it plays.
All the best,

Stan

thanks Stan
enjoy your horn

[Mactenor]

YOUTUBE has a video of Dwayne Eddy playing "REBEL ROUSER". Jim Horn is playing a Silversonsic on this video.

It took awhile but I think this is it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGxDu5biqgM


Hi bobsax and thank you.
I will send you a PM concerning the price.
It will require too some work but pads and mechanics are ok and plays very well... I have placed my five digit VI in its case :).
Its worth having it repaired if it plays.
All the best,

Stan

thanks Stan
enjoy your horn

Another Youtube video to catch Jim Horn playing his Silversonic is "Rosanna" by Toto.

[bobsax]

Another Youtube video to catch Jim Horn playing his Silversonic is "Rosanna" by Toto.

Somebody else look this one up:D

[bobsax]

I figured you guys would be interested in this eBay Super 20 alto
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=170322904786

[milandro]

very nice and I believe it is completely original I have an alto overslung in almost the same series range with a similar neck

[Saxman93]

Add me to the fan club. I just got a Super 20. Aw man this thing is nice payed $3,000 for the horn, new pads, and resos. Got kangaroo hide pads and 24 karot gold resos can not wait to get it from the shop.

[Edward Turner]

Hi all Looks like I have just become a member of the Super 20's I just purchased a TENOR from ebay today. Paid £850 for it,,,seems a good price,,not sure as it is being delivered from the State's, scary man. Iv read a lot on this web thread and all seem over the moon with the Sax. Iv been playing a crap boosey and Hawks Emperor for 6 yrs now so Getting the Super is going to motivate me even more to improve. I am told that it is a 1969. Serial starts wth # what does that mean can any one help? then 46xxxx. Not sure if it is Eastlake or Cleavland.

I cannot wait to get my lips on it.. I have a good mouthpiece SELMER E silver looking. What reed would you guys recomend?

It will need a clean,,the neck looks worn to death,,,Can I get it silver plated?.
It has a lot of wear on the bell and other places. If I remove the laquer and polish the sax,,,,is that a big issue? I know so many questions; see I am like a big kid waiting out side the sweet shop to open !

[Grumps]

Not sure if it is Eastlake or Cleavland.
Eastlake. No worries though, as the cheapening of the product up to that point was basically cosmetic. I've got one from right around then and it compare most favorably with the early ones.

[milandro]

a super 20 for 850$ and a 460XXX series ! (the best Eastlakes ;) ) this is a great price ! Congratulations!

[Edward Turner]

a super 20 for 850$ and a 460XXX series ! (the best Eastlakes ;) ) this is a great price ! Congratulations!

Thank you for posting so soon,, It has taken me years to make up my mind on which sax to buy, and I think (know) I have cosen wisely, thanks to the postings and knowledge gained from you guys.

Any more on 'shall I delaquer the sax' ? Maybe get the neck silver plated

[milandro]

well you would be creating a fake if plating a brass neck since the silver neck of a super 20 is SOLID silver and not plate, besides, in order to replicate it correctly you would need to remove the two braces ans keep those brass and plate the neck, resolder the two braces, unless you do the job is going to cost a fair bit.
I have been considering that opportunity myself when I didn't have a silver neck which I did manage to acquire (it took lots of luck, quite a bit of cash and quick thinking and acting) from a kind member here.

De lacquer a Super 20? You must be joking! these horns don't seem to be affected much by the delacquer mania that Selmer seem to have and their lacquer is quite good (I should know I have 3 !), no, do yourself a favour keep you horn nice and shiny. Leave this nonsense of delaquering to someone else with a different horn. You have a Super 20 Eastlake man!

[Edward Turner]

Thanks again; I really didt mean take off all the laquer. just the bits were badly scratched and worn, just trying to think of ways to inhance its appearence.

Think I'd better calm down and be a little patient.

[neilangierof]

Congrats Edward! I'm happy to hear you got yourself a good horn.

I have also just joined the gang. Got my new 313,XXX Super 20 alto this afternoon! I've never seen one in such good condition! Now all it needs is a fresh set of pads and we're good to go!

[milandro]

Congrats Edward! I'm happy to hear you got yourself a good horn.

I have also just joined the gang. Got my new 313,XXX Super 20 alto this afternoon! I've never seen one in such good condition! Now all it needs is a fresh set of pads and we're good to go!

nice, well done, would you care to comment on intonation tendencies? :)

[Dr G]

I figured you guys would be interested in this eBay Super 20 alto
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=170322904786


very nice and I believe it is completely original I have an alto overslung in almost the same series range with a similar neck

Did King offer silverplate as a finish? I don't recall seeing one.

[milandro]

I figured you guys would be interested in this eBay Super 20 alto
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=170322904786


very nice and I believe it is completely original I have an alto overslung in almost the same series range with a similar neck

Did King offer silverplate as a finish? I don't recall seeing one.

Apparently they did, we have discussed the matter in conjunction with a member's purchase, Brasscane, who had bought a similar silver super 20 tenor. King had always offered the silverplate option and apparently this was available until the very last run of their horns. After all , some institutions, such as the Navy, apparently marched only silver horns so it would have made sense. I have owned a cheaper 613 King which was also completely and originally silver plate.

[xax]

I figured you guys would be interested in this eBay Super 20 alto
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=170322904786


very nice and I believe it is completely original I have an alto overslung in almost the same series range with a similar neck

Did King offer silverplate as a finish? I don't recall seeing one.
Definitely. I've seen a number of silver-plated Zephyrs of widely varied vintages and the occasional S20.

[xax]

I figured you guys would be interested in this eBay Super 20 alto
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=170322904786


very nice and I believe it is completely original I have an alto overslung in almost the same series range with a similar neck

Did King offer silverplate as a finish? I don't recall seeing one.

Apparently they did, we have discussed the matter in conjunction with a member's purchase, Brasscane, who had bought a similar silver super 20 tenor. King had always offered the silverplate option and apparently this was available until the very last run of their horns. After all , some institutions, such as the Navy, apparently marched only silver horns so it would have made sense. I have owned a cheaper 613 King which was also completely and originally silver plate.

Milandro, I'm curious about the tone holes on these late models. Does your late model alto have drawn or soldered tone holes on the body? on the bell?

[neilangierof]

Hey milandro. INTONATION is a slightly spotty topic and I don't really know what to tell you. I'm not about to say "yeah, all you need to do is change your embouchure on certain notes to compensate"... neither am I going to say "yeah, I can pretty much stick to a 1.5 pound grip throughout". I've just never really thought about intonation is all. On the contrary, what I CAN say is (even with pads that are older than I am), the sound on that little devil is just CREAM. Pardon the poor choice of words. :P

Fortunately, I'm pretty sure intonation can be adjusted, whether by a tech or even yourself. There should be solutions like adjusting of key height, modifying individual tone holes or even just getting used to it (might even be some method we haven't yet discovered). I guess what I'm saying is not to let INTONATION be a deciding factor when considering a new horn. What's most important is whether or not you're comfortable with it.

[neilangierof]

Sorry for the lengthy post! Maybe I should summarise... I normally play on a Mark VI alto and did not have any difficulty switching over. There. :P

Anyway, here are some pics. Apparently, this horn was displayed in Saxpics awhile back. Now, I have a question too. When the sterling silver neck starts losing its original gold lacquer, does it first appear to have black spots/marks? Or is that just oxidation at work?

[neilangierof]

http://s143.photobucket.com/albums/r127/neilangierof/

Oops. :P

[Dr G]

Thanks Milandro and Xax... I think.

I have a weakness for Super 20 altos and a fondness of silverplate. :twisted:

Or is it the converse???

[milandro]

Milandro, I'm curious about the tone holes on these late models. Does your late model alto have drawn or soldered tone holes on the body? on the bell?

I was curious about that too, I couldn't tell by observing my super 20 alto 626XXX toneholes and I did that long and hard, but I couldn't find any discernable difference from my Eastlake 460XXX or 466XXX tenor so I assume they are the same, in spite of all the things that one reads about the late Super 20.

Regarding the intonation I know very well that it has a lot to do with many things and thanks to the intense reading done on this forum in these almost 3 years now that I have been a dweller on SOTW, I think I understand the perils and tribulations of such thing.

I was more interested in a factual comment like a measured deviation from a measured standard tuning to understand the tendances of the Super 20 alto.

Incidentally the Super 20 alto shown in the pictures is a fairly old one with the old left table , which is a completely different animal than the more modern ones. The same horn has been recently acquired by a friend of mine and which showed , at first at least, some rather interesting intonation quirks which were tamed by the expert playing of my friend Stan, as he is known here on SOTW.

[xax]

Milandro, I'm curious about the tone holes on these late models. Does your late model alto have drawn or soldered tone holes on the body? on the bell?

I was curious about that too, I couldn't tell by observing my super 20 alto 626XXX toneholes and I did that long and hard, but I couldn't find any discernable difference from my Eastlake 460XXX or 466XXX tenor so I assume they are the same, in spite of all the things that one reads about the late Super 20.


It's a little tougher with an alto because of its smaller size but if you can reach your hand inside of the bell and feel the inside edge of the tone holes you will likely be able to tell the difference. The inner edges of soldered tone-holes are noticeably sharper than the drawn variety.

Another way to tell that is particularly useful for determining the method of fabrication of the body tone holes, is by noting the wall thickness of the tone-hole chimneys. The drawn chimneys are thinner, being approximately the same thickness as the body metal while the soldered chimneys are quite a bit thicker. This will show on the pads as a perhaps 50% thicker seat/indentation.

[neilangierof]

Incidentally the Super 20 alto shown in the pictures is a fairly old one with the old left table , which is a completely different animal than the more modern ones. The same horn has been recently acquired by a friend of mine and which showed , at first at least, some rather interesting intonation quirks which were tamed by the expert playing of my friend Stan, as he is known here on SOTW.

I'm pretty sure you mean new LH table. The older ones had a table more like the Zephyr. This one still retains the same bore dimensions and pearl key designs but with the 'new and improved' BA-style table keys. You could say it's exactly the same as the later ones really, just in a different colour... unless by 'modern', you meant flat and without the rounded G# pearl. Then we'd be talking about different things here. :TGNCHK:

As I said, I've always just been playing on a VI and switching over was nothing more than a 2min transition. Then again, it could be different from one person to the next (maybe choice of mouthpiece too!).

[Turnaround]

I found the Super 20s intonation when setup properly were very good, just not as "stable" as the Selmers. They were like stomping on the gas of an overpowered American muscle car that did not have the nimbleness of the european supercars. But relax and point them straight. Welcome to the back seat!!!... Screaming!!

[neilangierof]

My experience happens to be a little different from Turnaround's. I find my S20 much more nimble than my VI and is just 100% easier to maneuver. You can basically get it to do whatever you want it to. Then again, everyone gets a different response on different horns.

[neilangierof]

"The 295xxx-305xxx had the left to right swinging spatula keys which unless you are hercules on the low c#-bb, they will cause you tendonitis."

LOL! I love this. Classic. ;)

[milandro]

There are no doubts in MY mind that Super 20 are, in general, more responsive and nimble than almost anything else out there. My comments and questions were indeed directed more in the direction of the intonation quirks (if you have experienced any). I too agree that the LH spatula keys of the early models are pretty tough to operate. I am afraid that I don't like them at all but , one again, to each his own right? ;) :)

[Edward Turner]

http://s143.photobucket.com/albums/r127/neilangierof/

Oops. :P

Well done you must be a happy boy. The alto looks amazing,,,we are so lucky to be gifted with Super 20s although mine is on the way to the uk from USA. Cant Wait.

[neilangierof]

Indeed I am. But it's gonna take some time and money to get it up to 100% playing condition. Next thing on the to-do list: Case. Any suggestions?

[brasscane]

Next thing on the to-do list: Case. Any suggestions?
Hiscox.

[Turnaround]

My experience happens to be a little different from Turnaround's. I find my S20 much more nimble than my VI and is just 100% easier to maneuver. You can basically get it to do whatever you want it to. Then again, everyone gets a different response on different horns.

I guess I worded it in an odd way. I too think the S20s are more nimble. But for me, on a Selmer for instance, if I go for a note and finger the wrong one maybe a half or whole step off, it's going to come out wrong, but the S20, for me, if I hear a note (go for a note) and finger it wrong, it's intonation is so flexible that I may unconsciously and quickly pull that note to the one I meant. That has happened to me a few times on the 20s.

[neilangierof]

Sounds like the "wrong" horn, for the "wrong" player. :twisted:

I still wish I was Hercules on the LH cluster keys though! :D

[neilangierof]

Next thing on the to-do list: Case. Any suggestions?
Hiscox.

Thanks squeak! I'll check them out.

[neilangierof]

Food for thought:

I noticed most pre-305xxx Super 20's (especially altos) tend to develop a dark patina to their lacquer. Strangely enough, the post-305xxx ones I've come across (including my own), stay bright and yellow. I wonder if they used a different lacquer or even a different type of metal (hence a different reaction to the lacquer). Or could it even have something to do with case interior?? Has anyone ever thought about this? Here's a good example of an early alto...

http://cgi.ebay.com/King-Super-20-Alto-Full-Pearls-Original-Beautiful2850xx_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ72Q3a1 205Q7c66Q3a2Q7c65Q3a12Q7c39Q3a1Q7c240Q3a1318Q7c301 Q3a0Q7c293Q3a1Q7c294Q3a50QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em1 4QQhashZitem5189c4952dQQitemZ350203712813QQptZLHQ5 fDefaultDomainQ5f0QQsalenotsupported

[milandro]

I think they just used a lacquer that was either darker to start with or which became darker because of the influence of external factors, as far as I can tell (and I've seen a few, the bare metal has the same colour. Early lacquers had a different chemical composition

[neilangierof]

Good stuff milandro! That just adds on to the mystery behind King's factory doors. Different metal/lacquer?? These early horns were just so inconsistent you can hardly tell with them. What's worse is there's little to no official documentation with any of them (the changes I mean). This should be added to the Saxpics guide! :P

Wonder if it made any difference to the tonal qualities of the horn.

[Edward Turner]

Inconsistant? Not sure about that one. My fellow 20s fan

[zmann]

Hey Guys,
I have been reading the posts and I must say I'm glad I ran into the Super 20 Fan Club. I've been playing my 464XXX Tenor SS since 1980 and in this nearly 30 year period I haven't tried anything yet that would make me consider getting rid of it. Glad to be on board!!

[milandro]

I've been playing my 464XXX Tenor SS since 1980 and in this nearly 30 year period I haven't tried anything yet that would make me consider getting rid of it.

GO Eastlakes, Go! 8-) :D

[milandro]

Wonder if it made any difference to the tonal qualities of the horn.

of course NOT! :twisted:

[Stan]

Wonder if it made any difference to the tonal qualities of the horn.

of course NOT! :twisted:



LOL

Anyway concerning sound quality I like older models more... the only real problem is the complex low C# mechanism whose action is a bit too slow. It can be improved but it is always hard to use. In any case the sound is amazing (Milandro knows it... ;)) and it is a beauty with all those mother of pearls around and the engraved C and C# keys... 8-)
As far as I understood there are three generations of left pink (?) clusters on Super20s, maybe the last one is the best one also. Unfortunately this kind of mechanism is present mainly on Eastlakes models LOL :D (sorry I could not resist).

Stan

[Robert_Allan]

As far as I understood there are three generations of left pink (?) clusters on Super20s, maybe the last one is the best one also. Unfortunately this kind of mechanism is present mainly on Eastlakes models LOL :D (sorry I could not resist).

Stan



There are five variations of table keys up to the point the double-socket neck disappeared (somewhere near serial number 384K), and when the double-socket necks were replaced there was another change made. And beyond that I believe there were even more changes, particularly to the shape of the keys.


style #1, up to about 285K, the table keys are mounted lower on the horn.

style #2, from 285K to about 295K, same as style #1 except the keys are mounted higher on the main tube.

style #3, from about 295K - 305K, this is the design with the less desirable G# key.

style #4, from 305K to whenever pearled horns ended (about 345K?).

style #5, from the end of the pearled key era until the demise of the double-socket neck, around 384K.

There are some octave keys changes that also take place around 385K, where horns had the earlier style mechanics of the double-socket neck era, but with a single-socket style neck. The action of the octave mechanism is altered quite a bit after this, somewhere between 385K and 394K, but I don't know where the change occurs.

[Robert_Allan]

Serial numbers are approximations in the previous post, but should be fairly close.

[Edward Turner]

I have just purchased an Eastlake 460524. Dates around 1969 from ebay US for £850,,,Had to pay customs VAT £155 NIGHT MARE. Still the sax sounds great quick transition from key to key. The octave key seems a little high, ie my thumb catches the egde as I move to it. Prob put some more cork to lower this issue. It is heavy compared to my old Emporer Boosey and Hawks. Ah my poor back! It has lots of scratches, is there any way to erase them. I think maybe not, what'd u say? Have I had a good deal Total £1005. .

[milandro]

You got good deal even after paying duty. The scratches won't go away unless you polish your horn to death. Mind you these horns can be very thin in places. Keep the battle scars and learn to live with it. Invest some more money into an overhaul and have the horn playing as beautifully as it can do. Enjoy! ;) :)

[Edward Turner]

I am in love wwith the sax, now after a few days of playing. I was uncertain at first. The more I play the more I hear the beautiful tones of this horns. High F is just sweet. Low Bb is knee trembling. It seems to have an endless playability.

I have, at last, after 8 years of searching for a good sax foung a great sax. No wonder it has a fan club. My tutor Dany Bruben of Maidenhead has an old pre Mkiv not sure of the model, was blown away by the sound. What a happy boy I am.

[Yellowhorn]

That is not a bad Eastlake serial number and at 1000 pounds, it is a good deal. I don't think it is a silversonic one, is it? Tenor or alto?

Can you post some pictures?

[Edward Turner]

Hi Yellow It is a Tenor not silversonic.

[Edward Turner]

Can anyone help me? I 'v a prob with the sax (maybe) or it could be me. It plays out of tune on many notes. I saw the repair man for a service and he said it is well out of tune and he does not know the answer!! He said I would have to raise the neck up from it's stay 3mm to get it close to being in tune. Pulled the MPC off as far as it would go as well. Maybe I will have to change my embochure. I know there are loads of pages on this subject but maybe it's a combination with the sax and player. Or is it a super 20 tenor issue

[milandro]

did we say welcome to the club? What did you think we meant with it?

[neilangierof]

It's just like pufferfish, you just gotta know what to do with it.

[Grumps]

Or is it a super 20 tenor issue
Just particular to your horn if it also played poorly for your tech. Where are the problem notes, or is the entire range either sharp or flat?

[brasscane]

As far as I understood there are three generations of left pink (?) clusters on Super20s, maybe the last one is the best one also. Unfortunately this kind of mechanism is present mainly on Eastlakes models LOL :D (sorry I could not resist).

Stan


Super 20s are a perfectly good example of hype. You take a rationally designed sax, put a double-socket neck on it, add a dubiously designed triangular pants guard, up the ante with a G# that by all accounts is hard to play, and most importantly add useless pearls, et voila, the horn is worth $3K more. :D (Sorry, I could not resist).

[neilangierof]

How do you think Rolex survived so many generations? :TGNCHK:

[bobsax]

Can anyone help me? I 'v a prob with the sax (maybe) or it could be me. It plays out of tune on many notes. I saw the repair man for a service and he said it is well out of tune and he does not know the answer!! He said I would have to raise the neck up from it's stay 3mm to get it close to being in tune. Pulled the MPC off as far as it would go as well. Maybe I will have to change my embochure. I know there are loads of pages on this subject but maybe it's a combination with the sax and player. Or is it a super 20 tenor issue

I suggest you find a really good player to blow through it and check all the notes with a tuner then compare his results with yours .

A few of my horns have really sharp LH palm high D's and I either half to put down a another key (if it's really bad C) or get the key to not open as much.

[Michael Ward]

I just got a Super 20 tenor 297...It's my second S20 . Years ago I had a mint Series 3 well set up that was really underwhelming so I didn't know what to expect. This Series 1 goes like a rocket. Just ridiculous response. tone. flexibility and projection. I can't put it down. Totally knocked out. I have no problem with the Gsharp..just feels like my V1 soprano and my saxello.

[JazzFox]

I just got rid of my Selmer Mark VII alto in favor of a 1948 King Super 20 alto.
Best decision I ever made!

[neilangierof]

I just got a Super 20 tenor 297...It's my second S20 . Years ago I had a mint Series 3 well set up that was really underwhelming so I didn't know what to expect. This Series 1 goes like a rocket. Just ridiculous response. tone. flexibility and projection. I can't put it down. Totally knocked out. I have no problem with the Gsharp..just feels like my V1 soprano and my saxello.

Grats! As Turnaround would say: "You must have developed a Hercules pinky!" :D

[Yellowhorn]

Jazzfox,

You might soon do the same thing to your VI tenor! ;-)

[JazzFox]

Jazzfox,

You might soon do the same thing to your VI tenor! ;-)

Hehe... if my tenor was a VII... of course ;P

[Turnaround]

Grats! As Turnaround would say: "You must have developed a Hercules pinky!" :D

Series one is not so bad. I had an alto. What a tone!!! It's the series II that will turn your pinky into a thumb after some time. ;)

[neilangierof]

Grats! As Turnaround would say: "You must have developed a Hercules pinky!" :D

Series one is not so bad. I had an alto. What a tone!!! It's the series II that will turn your pinky into a thumb after some time. ;)

I think you mean series Ia (transitional series), as called on Saxpics. 8-)

[neilangierof]

Hey guess what. I'm surprised no one's mentioned this yet but the Buescher TH&C's have the backward hinged G# cluster key too! (or at least the one I own)

Even more surprising is the fact that it actually feels much better than the backward G#'s on the transitional Super 20's! I think it could have something to do with the hinge or even its position/shape. However, I'm sure it wouldn't be very difficult to 'master the cluster' on the Super 20's if you set your mind (and pinky) to it.

[JazzFox]

I just got some pictures up of my 292,XXX Super 20.
The last owner thought it was a re-laq.... I am not sure.
Let me know what you think.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/28644946@N03/sets/72157620281817265/

Thanks ^^

[Turnaround]

Grats! As Turnaround would say: "You must have developed a Hercules pinky!" :D

Series one is not so bad. I had an alto. What a tone!!! It's the series II that will turn your pinky into a thumb after some time. ;)

I think you mean series Ia (transitional series), as called on Saxpics. 8-)

You might be right.

[Turnaround]

Also, I finally found my folder of Silversonic pictures. Matching pair of Anniversary Models (http://gallery.me.com/paintandrecord#100026&bgcolor=black&view=grid).

These are the Creme-de-la-creme of Super 20s IMO.

[warp x]

Great looking horns!!

[milandro]

I just got some pictures up of my 292,XXX Super 20.
The last owner thought it was a re-laq.... I am not sure.
Let me know what you think.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/28644946@N03/sets/72157620281817265/

Thanks ^^

looks original to me

[neilangierof]

I just got some pictures up of my 292,XXX Super 20.
The last owner thought it was a re-laq.... I am not sure.
Let me know what you think.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/28644946@N03/sets/72157620281817265/

Thanks ^^

looks original to me

It looks original, but there are also signs of it being relacquered. See the way the lacquer wears off over the engraving? In any case, even if it was relacquered, it was done very well. Only it looks like it could have been maintained a little better after the relac.

[neilangierof]

Also, I finally found my folder of Silversonic pictures. Matching pair of Anniversary Models (http://gallery.me.com/paintandrecord#100026&bgcolor=black&view=grid).

These are the Creme-de-la-creme of Super 20s IMO.

Wow. Have you had the chance/honour of playing them? It would be just like putting your lips on Megan Fox. :drunken:

[Michael Ward]

They are beautiful. I have no problems with the C sharp. As I say it's the same as my V1 sop and nino and I really wouldn't have noticed. This horn is also very well set up. The sound and response is what blows me away. My friend on here Byas a Drink has a 299... and a much later horn and he encouraged me to try the 297...He much prefers the sound of the pre 305...horns and described it as dark with a real cutting quality..he also added it was a "real jazz horn" and he's right. He also thought the resonance and intonation is superior on the earlier horns.
As I said I was unprepared for the " Superstuff" after owning a Series 3 that
my V1 slaughtered in every department but this horn is something else.

[xax]

Also, I finally found my folder of Silversonic pictures. Matching pair of Anniversary Models (http://gallery.me.com/paintandrecord#100026&bgcolor=black&view=grid).

These are the Creme-de-la-creme of Super 20s IMO.

Wow!...

[milandro]

beauties!

[Edward Turner]

Also, I finally found my folder of Silversonic pictures. Matching pair of Anniversary Models (http://gallery.me.com/paintandrecord#100026&bgcolor=black&view=grid).

These are the Creme-de-la-creme of Super 20s IMO.

Pure beauty, I love these Saxes. Makes mine look tatty,,but tatty is cool to.

[swansong]

I just stumbled into the club, and boy am I glad I did. I'm constantly surfing L.A. craigslist for tenors, I found a dude selling a 427xxx eastlake silver neck super 20 for $1000 (a typo??) and I hounded him for weeks until he finally got back to me. He had it shipped from Florida where he bought it in 1999 from his high school band teacher, who owned it since it since its birth in ~1966-7. Apparently 15 people contacted him the first day of the listing, but I was first!! YES!!!!!!

It's a really clean relac, though the engraving is somewhat soft (from buffing or thick lacquer? i dunno), but it does play like a winner. I use hr link 6* with RJS 2H reeds and the response is effortless despite the 15 year old pads and lack of TLC. Compared to my yamaha 62II, the altissimo and palm keys notes leap out without even trying. wow.

It's my 4th sax and first vintage tenor, and I am so bloody happy I made this impulse buy, at a steal no less. The last owner seemingly never swabbed it (other than pad saver) and the inside of the sterling neck was totally coated with black mildewy crap. I cringed when I saw he kept his C* mouthpiece permanently fastened with reed and rovner lig scratching and denting against the neck in the neck bag, what an a**. When I finally swabbed the body some pieces of dead grass came out. I'm so glad I rescued her...

I'm currently investigating some overhaul options to fix the neck dents and repad. can I get a roll call on what you all prefer for pads and resonators? tenor or alto. 8-)

I'm leaning towards sarge's vintage premium rebuild with saxgourmet pads and flat seamless resos. it currently has plastic domes and I think it could use a little bit more edge. Downside is wwsax waitlist is till october. I've heard music medic does good work and uses newest materials, may go with them. Horn improvement is a couple hours away, will consider them if the price is reasonable compared to shipping out of state.

Also, I'm not sure how to describe my ideal action setup, since I've only played newer horns, sharp and fast or as close to the original setup as possible...?

I'll post some pics when I get a chance, pre-and post rebuild.

THANKS!!

PS. anyone in the market for a Yamaha 62II tenor? haha

[swansong]

pre-overhaul. Best thousand bucks I've ever spent, still don't believe it's mine. I can't stop staring... ;)

[milomo]

Here's mine, a 338,XXXish brass bell, silver neck, full pearled beauty.

[milandro]

well, you are two lucky B******S! ;) :) the silver neck alone costed me more!

[warp x]

Here's a pic of my old horn. 415XXX. One of the last made in Cleveland.



I replaced it with this.

[brasscane]

On behalf of all members of the Super 20 Fan Club I would like to extend my sincerest condolences :cry:. Clearly, desperate times must have called for such desperate measures :shock:. At the same time, however, I would like to compliment you in that you chose to downgrade to something other than Selmer :D.

[warp x]

on behalf of all members of the super 20 fan club i would like to extend my sincerest condolences :cry:. Clearly, desperate times must have called for such desperate measures :shock:. At the same time, however, i would like to compliment you in that you chose to downgrade to something other than selmer :d.

lol! :D

[milandro]

Well, I have reasons to think that WarpX is very happy about his horn...........but in order to appreciate what one has lost , one has to put some distance between himself and the lost happiness ;) :)

[ParrotTheLegends]

Now that I'm a member, I thought I should pay my respects here.

I have a 385xxx Super 20 with silver neck (not silversonic) that I got on Ebay about a year ago for $2500. The previous owner said his Mark VI played better but somehow it did not occur to him to hire a repair man to fix about 5 pads that were leaking. Luckily that's exactly what I did, and I also had the action adjusted. The lacquer is immaculate everywhere except on the back of the body (a section about 5 inches long that touches the ground if you lay the horn on its palm keys). It's a sight to behold, but more importantly, it plays unbelievably. None of the Mark 6's I have tried played any better. Some of them responded equally well, but the tone wasn't the same and usually they weren't as loud.

I used to play an RPC 125 on it and before that I played an RPC 115B. I also have a killer vintage duckbill Berg (made of bronze) that sounds great on my SML but for some reason is too bright for the King and sounds thin. But the mouthpiece I play on it now (and probably will for the rest of my life) is a Tenney Link STM 8 NY. I've never owned a Link before, but now I understand why so many legendary players played them.

[Yellowhorn]

That was a good deal you got, considering the silver neck and the serial number. Do you have pics you can post?

[ParrotTheLegends]

Not yet, I may take some eventually. It has the sunbursts on the B and Bb pads, but I'm assuming that's normal for the serial number? Engraving says King Super 20, The H.N. White Co., Cleveland, Ohio. And it's surrounded by a bunch of flowers and leaves.

I was really lucky though, my repair man says it's one of the tightest (rods etc.) and most mechanically sound Super 20's he's ever seen and he works on a lot of them. It's weird, I can tap the neck in certain spots and the whole horn resonates. And the body vibrates when I play. I'm guessing that's normal though since other people in this thread have reported the same thing happening with their S20's.

[warp x]

It's weird, I can tap the neck in certain spots and the whole horn resonates.

Yep, mine had that too.
One of the best things about the Super 20, aside from the sound, is how well they stay in adjustment. One good setup will give you a LOT of mileage.

[FlaSax]

Ok fan club, I have a alto super 20 ventage 67, silver neck, I play it each sunday for church but am looking for a 2nd, equal quality used horn. Any ideas since the Kings have some quirks in the octive key weak spring, and soft key springs. For a 2nd horn about equal quality what would all of you recommend. Still play a Meyer 5, with the Legeier plastic reeds, great no warp week to week. Nuff said, give me some ideas on a 2nd sax, FlaSax

[ParrotTheLegends]

One of the best things about the Super 20, aside from the sound, is how well they stay in adjustment. One good setup will give you a LOT of mileage.

Nice, I'm hoping mine stays in adjustment for a year or so because I'll be in Germany next year and I don't think S20's are very common over there.


Ok fan club, I have a alto super 20 ventage 67, silver neck, I play it each sunday for church but am looking for a 2nd, equal quality used horn. Any ideas since the Kings have some quirks in the octive key weak spring, and soft key springs. For a 2nd horn about equal quality what would all of you recommend. Still play a Meyer 5, with the Legeier plastic reeds, great no warp week to week. Nuff said, give me some ideas on a 2nd sax, FlaSax

Weak or worn out springs are something that should be fixed by your local sax tech and have nothing to do with the quality of your horn. The action on S20's is highly adjustable and springs can be replaced. If you haven't gotten your weak springs fixed, there may be other things wrong with your horn that a good repairman would fix for you.

As far as other excellent horns for similar prices, I would check out vintage Martins and SML's (Strasser Marigaux Lemaire if I spelled that correctly). Conn 6M's are good as well but I would check out the other horns first. If you can find a King Zephyr made in the same vintage as early S20's, that would be an excellent horn as well but expect to pay almost as much as you would for an early Super 20. The Selmer Cigar Cutter is a great horn that tends to be underpriced (at least in comparison to other vintage Selmers). I played a Cigar Cutter alto once that played unbelievably and sold for only $1500 or so when the economy was good two years ago. It didn't have much lacquer left though.

[Grumps]

Any ideas since the Kings have some quirks in the octive key...
Keep the mechanism properly oiled (http://www.shwoodwind.co.uk/HandyHints/oilaction.htm), and make sure the body octave pip is clean and the pad for it doesn't stick (http://www.shwoodwind.co.uk/HandyHints/stickypads.htm). Lots of folks complain about hitting a clean middle D on these horns, and I suspect from my own experience with these horns it's because the mechanics just need a bit of attention.

[Edward Turner]

I use a selmer E silver mouthpiece. It has a great clear sound over the Sax. What would you use to give a wooded vintage sound ?

BEBOPALOOA

[rloyot]

So close - waiting for my silversonic tenor (gold leaf on bell) 375xxx to arrive from of all places Sydney. Trying to back to my roots - had a silversonic 400xxx 30 years ago - moved away from it eventually but am so pumped to be coming back!![Impnt]

[Yellowhorn]

Welcome back to playing sax and welcome to the Super 20 fan club! Yours looks stunning! I am trying to get a silversonic tenor or alto.

[swansong]

Welcome back to playing sax and welcome to the Super 20 fan club! Yours looks stunning! I am trying to get a silversonic tenor or alto.

Greetings from Los Angeles... Any reason you're selling your super 20, other than to get the silver bell? Are you looking for a cleveland specifically? There's someone selling a silver tenor in my area for $4500 if you didn't already spot it...

http://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/msg/1333720686.html

As much as I believe it has a different (and possibly more attractive) sound characteristic, I feel like it would be tough luck to find a really nice one, especially without hearing it first, and for a reasonable price. I don't think I coulda gotten a better deal for my eastlake horn. I guess a man's gotta do...

[swansong]

Any ideas since the Kings have some quirks in the octive key weak spring, and soft key springs.

Other than a broken palm F post, resoldered neck key mount, and cosmetic signs of previous abuse my horn seems pretty resilient, it's got blue steel springs. Really heavy nickel hardware, much thicker than anything I've seen... Though it could use bumpers on the bell keys, a litle rattle isn't too bad.

Thought I'd point out my tech (micah @ horn improvement) recommended a brace for the F# key. Considering my horn had been mistreated by her last owner (sob) I'm glad I invested in this since I'm told that key is particularly weak on super 20s. Anyone else been told or experienced this?



Despite the lack of vintage-ness I think it's important to have a horn play its absolute best no matter what it looks like. just my personal opinion. With his encouragement I went all out, black roos and brass resotechs, synthetic everything for stability. he also put a cork pad in the body octave key, which was new to me. no regrets! sounds incredible, not too bright or shrill or whatever for the resos/pads, I get FAR more tonal effect changing between my hr link and hr vintage morgan (slight baffle), or different make of reeds for that matter. I can get the hawk and johnny hodges vintage sound no problem: large chamber with scooped sidewalls.

i shouldn't talk too much since we are all prone to vanity. even though my relac looks really purty I wish the engraving wasn't so dull. sherry huntley at artistic engraving offered an awesome deal for a recut, but I'm loath to ship my baby unnecessarily, even in a hiscox... maybe before the next overhaul, haha.

[milandro]

I never noticed anything with the F# key other that it is placed nicely (I hardly ever use it and in my Getzen Buescher stencil I had to bend it out of the way because I was always pressing it while playing other things like a Low C). I would like to find some tech in Holland who would favour the high tech approach on all materials used on a horn like this because there are definitely improvements available now on the market compared to when the horn was made. Since I am not a conservationist........ who wants to keep the horn original at all cost if its performance and comfort can be improved? I won't ever part with my 460xxx Eastlake Super 20 tenor (I have another one 466XXX which I only bought to acquire an original case.....perhaps I am a conservationist after all (!) and an overslung alto too but I am not so sure about those........) so re-sale value is not an issue. Modifying a horn that has to be re-sold is not a good idea, I think. If I would ever decide for a re-lacquer (not afraid of that too). I would certainly have my horn re-engraved with the addition of a custom engraving. Perhaps a two tone engraving too. But none of that is available in Holland so it is all dreams!

[brasscane]

Well, I have reasons to think that WarpX is very happy about his horn...........but in order to appreciate what one has lost , one has to put some distance between himself and the lost happiness ;) :)
This made me think that saxophones and women after all may have something in common...but that thought is warped because...


Yep, mine had that too.
One of the best things about the Super 20, aside from the sound, is how well they stay in adjustment. One good setup will give you a LOT of mileage.
...this clearly demonstrates they don't.


I don't think I coulda gotten a better deal for my eastlake horn. I guess a man's gotta do...
Eastlakes rock! (At least the earlier ones do). What more do you want, pearls???


Thought I'd point out my tech (micah @ horn improvement) recommended a brace for the F# key. Considering my horn had been mistreated by her last owner (sob) I'm glad I invested in this since I'm told that key is particularly weak on super 20s. Anyone else been told or experienced this?
No, don't quite understand. Never heard of this before. Could you please elaborate and take a pic from the side that shows how the rod was modified.


I won't ever part with my 460xxx Eastlake Super 20 tenor (I have another one 466XXX which I only bought to acquire an original case...
Brown with green interior? Had I known you were so old-fashioned ;), I would have given you the case to mine. I sold it for very little in spite of that the condition was as minty as old cases get (and built surprisingly well). My wife has bad allergies so out it went. Anyway, a Hiscox is safer for storage and transport.

[milandro]

Yep, maroon with green interior (the earlier ones with the red or green fake crocodile are much nicer but they do not belong to my Super 20 vintage).

[VintageSaxGuy]

Hi all,

I have a '63 (I think, I'm not near it to double check!), Silver Sonic tenor that toured internationally with its former owner. It's currently in need of some new pads and an adjustment, but it's absolutely one of my favorites among the tenors I have. Some day I would like to add a Super 20 alto to join the tenor I already have!

[ChiTownJazz80]

Hi, just joined the forum. I play a 385XXX King Super 20 and it's the best damn horn I have ever played, and I've played quite a few of them. It's got a lot of power and blows very freely. It was set up by Paul Maslin, the top sax technician here in Chicago, so the action on it is outstanding. I might buy a second tenor at some point, but I'll never sell this one.

[Jerry010101]

Oh the humanity! The humanity!!! :white:

From eBay. Guy says he's no expert.

You think???

He also says that "due to the age and rarity of this horn...."

[Yellowhorn]

I use a selmer E silver mouthpiece. It has a great clear sound over the Sax. What would you use to give a wooded vintage sound ?

BEBOPALOOA

Try a vintage Selmer Soloist (written on the table) or a vintage HR Berg with a low baffle.

Personally, I like the bright tone on Super 20's using a Dukoff Super Power Chamber.

[HansM7S20]

Just bought a tenor Super 20, silver neck, 415xxx. Some minor dings. Beautiful instrument. I used to play on a Mark 7 for many years. Though I often got positive remarks about the nice and huge tone of the M7, I already like the S20 more from an ergonomic stand point and for the sound as well. Can't stop playing since I got it last week. Had to get used a bit, but after 5 days, no problem hitting the bottom notes, subtones too. High palm key notes are a bit thin, but that may get better once I will have more practice on this instrument. Now I use Links, STM7 and 8. STM7 works the best for me. I have tried a Dukov 7 super power chamber and a Jody Jazz HR7. All MPC's fit the S20 but tone-wise, I only like the Link STM7 until now.

So glad I went for the S20.

[Yellowhorn]

Congrats! Johnny Griffin also played a Link on his 20, but his 20 was a silversonic.

[Grumps]

High palm key notes are a bit thin...
Super 20 tenors are generally known for their strong high palm key notes. The low notes should sing easily. Absent leaky pads, I'd have the neck connection checked by a comptetent tech with the right tools for doing same.

[HansM7S20]

Super 20 tenors are generally known for their strong high palm key notes. The low notes should sing easily. Absent leaky pads, I'd have the neck connection checked by a comptetent tech with the right tools for doing same.

It's getting better all the time! Until I see my repair man for some maintenance, I did the old trick glueing some cigarette paper on the neck. Mouthpiece fits tight now and everything working fine, from deep down low to high.

[HansM7S20]

Sonny Rollins | Freedom Suite ...for the Super20 fans.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKCNy9EdPyQ&feature=related

Yes, in this documentary series, (keywords "Orrin Keepnews, Producer"), you'll see some pictures of Sonny Rollins with Selmer as well as some movies where he is clearly playing a Super 20!

[swansong]

Francis Wolff Blue Note Photography Book... I almost forgot, I bought this a few months ago and was very pleased to see the S20 on the cover!! great account of history, nothing like seeing "men at work" haha. some women too. beautiful shots, get the hardcover!



http://www.amazon.com/Blue-Note-Years-Photography-Francis/dp/0789313650/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1253050309&sr=8-8

[ParrotTheLegends]

Hi, just joined the forum. I play a 385XXX King Super 20 and it's the best damn horn I have ever played, and I've played quite a few of them. It's got a lot of power and blows very freely. It was set up by Paul Maslin, the top sax technician here in Chicago, so the action on it is outstanding. I might buy a second tenor at some point, but I'll never sell this one.
I have a 385xxx as well, set up by one of the top sax techs here in the NW. Sounds like we have very similar horns. I can't believe the power and tone quality I get out of mine, you can put a wind tunnel full of air through it and it just gets louder and louder without the sound breaking. I still haven't found a Selmer (or any horn, I've tried other S20's including older ones) that sounds better. There may be horns with better ergonomics, but nothing beats the S20 for sound. Besides, the only thing that bothers me about the ergonomics is the lack of a tilting left hand pinky cluster and the awkward left hand thumbrest (which I could have modified if I take it to the repairman again). The main stack on my S20 is as fast and slick as anything.

[warp x]

Just bought a tenor Super 20, silver neck, 415xxx. Some minor dings. Beautiful instrument. I used to play on a Mark 7 for many years. Though I often got positive remarks about the nice and huge tone of the M7, I already like the S20 more from an ergonomic stand point and for the sound as well. Can't stop playing since I got it last week. Had to get used a bit, but after 5 days, no problem hitting the bottom notes, subtones too. High palm key notes are a bit thin, but that may get better once I will have more practice on this instrument. Now I use Links, STM7 and 8. STM7 works the best for me. I have tried a Dukov 7 super power chamber and a Jody Jazz HR7. All MPC's fit the S20 but tone-wise, I only like the Link STM7 until now.

So glad I went for the S20.


Congrats! Mine was a 415xxx too. Where did you get yours?

[gsnell]

Hello, hope I can join this club.

I had my King Super 20 Tenor (356,4xx) that i got from USA Horn see pictures
(http://usahorn.com/instView.usa?id=763&inst=King+Super+20+Tenor+Sax+Lacquer)up for sale on the Forum for £2000 a little while back but now I am so glad I didn't sell it, I'm gigging with it now in a funk band and it feels and sounds great, even when the monitoring is not great.

My only slight issue is altissimo G (think solo in AWB's pick up the pieces ) I used the f# key on my other horn to stablise the note but obviously can't do that now.

I'm happy with the new SS ponzol M2 110 mouthpiece I'm using, it really helps get a fat sound, and I tried a few pieces.

Has anyone got a good fingering for high G or any other tip which may help.

Thanks

Graham

[Grumps]

Has anyone got a good fingering for high G or any other tip which may help.
My usual G3 fingering works fine on my Silversonic tenor:
octave, front F, side Bb
add side C for G#3
Just hit 'em with a blast of air from the back of your throat.

[ParrotTheLegends]

Has anyone got a good fingering for high G or any other tip which may help.
My usual G3 fingering works fine on my Silversonic tenor:
octave, front F, side Bb
add side C for G#3
Just hit 'em with a blast of air from the back of your throat.
That's the same fingering I use for G3. For G#3 I'm a big fan of octave, G, F and E keys (on the main stack) and side Bb. Obviously there are many possibilities though, and the best option depends on reed/mouthpiece setup.

[Stan]

Hi, just joined the forum. I play a 385XXX King Super 20 and it's the best damn horn I have ever played, and I've played quite a few of them. It's got a lot of power and blows very freely. It was set up by Paul Maslin, the top sax technician here in Chicago, so the action on it is outstanding. I might buy a second tenor at some point, but I'll never sell this one.


Welcome :D

Just today I've played again my "very early" ;) Super 20 alto. What a wonderful voice it has... I love it!!!

Stan

[gsnell]

Thanks for the fingering suggestions for G3, a slightly harder reed has also helped

G

[HansM7S20]

Congrats! Mine was a 415xxx too. Where did you get yours?[/QUOTE]

hi Warp x,

I bought it from a guy in Rotterdam who has a Selmer BA. He thought one horn was enough as he had just quit a soul band where he used to play for more than 10 years. He gave up the band because their new singers just liked to play always in the same keys. The S20 is at my repair man now; he is finishing a complete overhaul. Hope to get it again this week!

[warp x]

hi Warp x,

I bought it from a guy in Rotterdam who has a Selmer BA. He thought one horn was enough as he had just quit a soul band where he used to play for more than 10 years. He gave up the band because their new singers just liked to play always in the same keys. The S20 is at my repair man now; he is finishing a complete overhaul. Hope to get it again this week!

Post some pictures when you have it!

[HansM7S20]

Finally got it back from Brussels after repad and regulation - plays extremely well!

[HansM7S20]

Some pictures in daylight

[swansong]

lovely S20... I really like that orangish/gold tinge on your and other horns- not sure if anyone commented on that being a vintage-related darkening, or if they were that dark from the factory. my relac is almost a white gold color, I wonder why they would give it the "stock" treatment. :( but I often play with eyes closed so doesn't matter!

[brasscane]

lovely S20... I really like that orangish/gold tinge on your and other horns- not sure if anyone commented on that being a vintage-related darkening, or if they were that dark from the factory. my relac is almost a white gold color, I wonder why they would give it the "stock" treatment. :( but I often play with eyes closed so doesn't matter!
I think they are darkened by age. I don't know this for sure but I have an early Eastlake that came out of a warehouse where it had been neglected and it is yellowish unlike the orangish/gold tinge that also to my taste is prettier.

[warp x]

Finally got it back from Brussels after repad and regulation - plays extremely well!

Great looking horn, looks much better than mine ever did. Come to think of it, I still have the original case here, exactly like yours.

[Michael Ward]

My new Series 1A tenor is very dark original lac..all the brass fittings on the blue croc case are the same tint as is the end plug. I got around to recording with it for the first time last week and I was knocked out with the recorded sound.The engineer commented it made my V1 which is a 67 model sound " Modern"...this was a compliment from him. I used the same DD Lamberson with a plasticover reed. I dig it so much I have just tonight bought a Series 1 alto.

[cuz24]

i just got a super 20 and love it. serial# 300xxx. My question is any suggestions on mouthpiece. I'm using a otto link 5* super tone master metal. i like it but i think its too mellow. id like more of a edge any info would help. thanks

[ParrotTheLegends]

Congratulations on your horn.

An Otto Link STM is a great choice for a Super 20 (and probably for any jazz tenor). If you want more edge you could try playing harder reeds and/or buying a more open Link STM. 7* is probably the most common opening for Links, and I play an 8 on my S20. 5* is fairly closed, so if you're playing soft reeds (3 or softer), it's no wonder that you're getting a mellow sound. Most guys who play a Link 5* (such as Trane) use hard reeds, like 4-5 hardness.

Then of course you could always try a high baffle piece. An RPC, a Vandoren V16, a vintage Dukoff Hollywood, or a Guardala would all be possible choices. The last 2 choices could be expensive. There are other Vandoren pieces that are edgier but I haven't played any of them. I used to play an RPC on my S20 with great results, although I wasn't especially looking for an edgy sound.

[cuz24]

thanks parrot i was playing earlier and took your advice put on #3 fibercell reed and like it. I wish i knew how to put pics up here. My horn had a thin coat of lac. on neck and when i rubbed it off it was silver plated and looks beautiful. has all pearls and stuff with silver neck. wow i love it

[TuneUp]

Now been an S20 owner for a week or so. 423xxx Cleveland it is. Once I pick it up, it's hard to switch back to the Mk VI on the same day, the breed is so different. It's definitely not just a screaming blues & R&R horn, by the way. Some nice qualities there in the sound. But it seems to have the guts to axe its way through when needed. I'll take her out to town once I get some time from my tech for some pad work, cleanup and oiling. Nice workmanship, down to the action of the neck screw! Plus I like the octave key. The pinky cluster is workable, too.

Using an STM7 with some rollover baffle & a higher-baffle Berg.

[SAXANY1]

I have two Super 20 tenors, one Silver Sonic which I bought brand new in 1964 still looks like it just came out of the show room, although not from lack of playing.
It's mint, loud and bright. Silver neck and bell single socket neck. The other is quite a bit older Super 20 with silver neck. The horn is two tone with dark body laquer
and lighter keys, very cool, also has a silver neck, double socket. Plays much darker than the newer model.

[swansong]

Welcome Saxany1! I hope you can post some pics, curious to see this two-tone, sounds awesome. Wonder if it's lacquer composition and difference in darkening over time, or custom job? I love my S20 but one day I'm gonna save up for an older honey cleveland. oh yeah. one day.

[SAXANY1]

i can't figure out how to post pictures. It always asks for my web site. If you send me you e-mail address, I would be happy to send you some pics!

[SAXANY1]

Not laquer composition, deffinately made that way. It is possible that it's a gold plated body, if I could load pictures, you could all guess!
The key cups are clear laquer over brass, the keys are silver plated, neck is silver, bell and body dark laquer, like and old Selmer. Very cool horn. The other is a mint, Silver Sonic, no pearls, both cases are like new as I use WJ. hard gig bags.

[bologne2]

hello guys I want become a super 20 club member!!i my storic tenor sax is a mark 6 five digit very french sound. when I tryed a tenor zephyr double socket neck i buyed it immediatly!!looks like a museum sax sounds so warm!now i want a super20 .so difficult to find in italy at a good price. i found a super 20 400xxx (cleveland) 3400 dollars in usa .do you think is a good price or i can wait.? i am so worried to buy a sax only looking at his pictures .l i will be in new york city the first week in april do yo think i can try a super 20 in ny and buy it without spend a lot money? i have thread in marketplace but no reply. I apologize for my english and thank you for your help

[milandro]

well you got a reply, maybe not the one you wanted but you got one!
What are you doing up so early!

If you are buying a horn from a reputable person ;) you could trust the dealer or person , if you have a complete unknown person maybe I would ask plenty of pictues but on the whole, lot of people buy horns on line

[bologne2]

hi milandro the netherlands are not so far from bologna

[milandro]

I know that's what I was telling you! :)

[xax]

Hey Milandro, make room...I just got an Eastlake S20 tenor. A 488xxx relac, soldered tone holes, "short" underslung brass neck. I'll post pics soon...taking it to my tech tomorrow for a setup, if the snowstorm allows.. :glasses1:

[yimsta]

Hey guys. I've had my Super 20 for about a month so I figured i'd make my post here now. It's a 454,xxx Eastlake tenor thats been delaquered...so it looks really old (which it is in a sense), but it plays wonderfully. It was set up with black roo pads. I'm really happy with this horn.

[milandro]

Eastlakes are the best kept secret (and keep them thinking they aren't any bit as good as their forebears!) , welcome to you both in the particular chapter " Eastlakes rule! " :)

[Grumps]

It's a 454,xxx Eastlake tenor ...
And welcome to the 454K club. There's a few of us here that have 'em.

[brasscane]

I have two Super 20 tenors, one Silver Sonic which I bought brand new in 1964 still looks like it just came out of the show room, although not from lack of playing.
It's mint, loud and bright. Silver neck and bell single socket neck.
I want your horn (wonder where I got that quote from :scratch:).


"Eastlakes rule!"
You stole that one from me, but it is true.


I have two Super 20 tenors, one Silver Sonic which I bought brand new in 1964 still looks like it just came out of the show room, although not from lack of playing.
It's mint, loud and bright. Silver neck and bell single socket neck.
I still want your horn even though it is not an Eastlake.

[swansong]

The other is quite a bit older Super 20 with silver neck. The horn is two tone with dark body laquer
and lighter keys, very cool, also has a silver neck, double socket. Plays much darker than the newer model.

Damn! You were serious. This is a very similar style I'm assuming...never seen one like this before. Lucky!!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280465492684&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

Drool...

[SAXANY1]

Damn! You were serious. This is a very similar style I'm assuming...never seen one like this before. Lucky!!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280465492684&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

Drool...

Same horn exacally, mine is a little older but in better shape. I also have the orginal cases for both my horns which are the burgandy color alligator.

[brasscane]

This is a at times a painful club to be a member of. The Kings of saxophone manufacture managed to exceed themselves repeatedly, so there is always someone out there with a Super 20 that is above and beyond.

[SAXANY1]

Isn't that the truth!

[ChiTownJazz80]

Woo hoo! Back in the Super 20 club! I told my story in another thread, but I'll just post it here anyway. So I sold my Super 20 tenor recently to get some cash to help out my sister, then stumbled across a great alto when one of my friends told me he had an alto that belonged to his mom's uncle that he was looking to sell. I wasn't even planning on buying the horn originally. I told him I still had the Conn Shooting Star alto I started out on, but I figured I'd go take a look at it to give him a price estimate. He told me he was planning on selling it for $500 and I told him I'd check it out and see if he should charge more or less. Needless to say I was pretty shocked to see an early Super 20 when he opened up the case. As soon as I blew the first few notes I could tell it was a great horn. So I told him I'd give him $2400 for the horn and bought it on the spot. Serial number is 298XXX. It's a relacquer, but I could care less. It's a killer player! Soooo happy to be back in the Super 20 club again!

[swansong]

I made it as 2nd tenor in the Santa Monica College big band, my first jazz gig ever! And luck would have it, the other tenor player had a 1964 dark honey Super 20 with the two-tone, lighter bell key finish. wow. First owner too. Jumped right into Night in Tunisia, my reading is spotty but I got copies to study. Yeehaw!

-swans

[SAXANY1]

I made it as 2nd tenor in the Santa Monica College big band, my first jazz gig ever! And luck would have it, the other tenor player had a 1964 dark honey Super 20 with the two-tone, lighter bell key finish. wow. First owner too. Jumped right into Night in Tunisia, my reading is spotty but I got copies to study. Yeehaw!

-swans

Great, good for you and if you need any of those tenor scores to practice, drop me a note, I probably have them and would e-mail you a copy. Just get a hold of me thru sotw

[Michael Ward]

Since I bought a Series 1 Super 20 alto ( mint off Ebay) I started enjoying playing alto again. Superb horn..I'd forgotten how it should be. I have a mint V1 from new 108... but there's always been something I couldn't get over,,now I'm looking to get a new neck for my V1 to try and match the S20, The ergos are late 40's but the response, vibe and sound are something else,,no wonder Bird played one.

[ChiTownJazz80]

Since I bought a Series 1 Super 20 alto ( mint off Ebay) I started enjoying playing alto again. Superb horn..I'd forgotten how it should be. I have a mint V1 from new 108... but there's always been something I couldn't get over,,now I'm looking to get a new neck for my V1 to try and match the S20, The ergos are late 40's but the response, vibe and sound are something else,,no wonder Bird played one.

There goes that myth that a mint early model horn is only mint because it's not a great horn and therefor was hardly ever played.

[Saxmansteve]

I also have a later model Super 20 Silversonic (525,XXX). The inside of the bell is gold plated, I think. I've played earlier horns, both Silver Sonics and brass bell/silver neck Cleveland horns and I haven't found one that I like better than mine. It has great intonation and the most consistent (and beautiful) tone of any horn I've ever played. I owned three Mk VI's before moving to the King. The early numbered MK VI had a certain something in the tone, but intonation problems that made me eventually try some higher numbered horns. One horn, around 110k, played very well, but just never excited me. A later horn, 185,XXX had the best intonation of the bunch, and a nice, responsive low end, but was thin in the upper register and I wanted a fuller sound. Perhaps I'll find that perfect MK VI that will blow me away, but every time I pick up my Silver Sonic, I remember why I like it so much.


Add another Super 20 player to the club. I have a Super 20 Silversonic (510xxx) tenor I bought new in 1973. Has the silver neck and bell. Bell is silver on the outside, brass on the inside. Are all the silver bells that way? It's been a great horn, one that will last a lifetime. I had been blowing on a Berg 120/1 for nearly 20 years and recently went to an RPC 120, and it's working very well. And being one of the unique group that we are, I use Rigotti Gold reeds. Anyone out there using them? I've been really happy with these reeds but no mention of them on the Forum. Guess I could throw it up on the Reeds thread.

Good to hear all you Super 20 players blowin' strong!

[saxyguy32578]

Wow! Such a great group! I lucked into my Super 20 (Silversonic) in college. I was a sophmore and I had just decided to leave my physics major and all the calculus behind for the music department. A month into my sophmore year, a clarinet major was leaving music for business and he sold me my silver coated baby for $150! I was playing it on a gig a couple weeks later and a guy offered me $500 on the spot for it - thank goodness I was smarter than that. The horn still plays great. The horn has a classic sound and I love having it in my (small but mighty!) arsenal.

[SAXANY1]

There is a really nice Silver sonic tenor on ebay, just listed, looks just like mine! Great horn.

[supersonic]

Hi play a 318*** Super 20 Alto *THE GREATES ALTO EVER MADE* now i look for a Super20 Tenor from around 1949 --- anybody has an idea where to find one ?

Tom

[junior1]

Sax Quest has one in the 294xxx, side pearl keys and silver neck

http://www.saxquest.com/productDetails.asp?productcode=299694Super20Tenor

[supersonic]

hi yes i saw that one a great Super 20 !! i just hesitate a little because i never saw a Super 20 from that time with such a bright laquer ....... but looks orginal ?