Filing down the baffle?

[Michael]

I have a Selmer s90 and I bought it my 2nd year playing as my classical piece. I liked it because it was free blowing and I could get a great sound out of it. Unfortunately, I didn't know much about pieces and now I realize that free blowing might not be best, price isn't always quality, and much more. The S90 is more in between classical and jazz because of the rollover baffle and square chamber (particularly the baffle). Would it be safe for me to VERY gently and carefully file down the baffle (with a nail file) until it becomes more straight to get rid of the power to the sound and make it more tame?

[MyMartinTenor]

Would it be safe for me to VERY gently and carefully file down the baffle (with a nail file) ....

No. I seem to recall that you and I have discussed this on here before (then it was chamber, I think?). If you don't have years of refacing experience, anything like that that you do is quite likely to ruin the piece. Chamber, tip, rails, baffle, sidewalls, etc, etc, etc, require a great deal of experience to modify well.

If you're willing to gamble, go ahead. But it is not "safe."

[hakukani]

It's a lot cheaper to find a good reed...

[Michael]

Any refacers have any advice? I mean it seems VERY easy compared to a lot of mpc stuff. It has a very slight rollover so I'd guess if I use a very fine sandpaper or something and file it carefully just for it to even out it should work. I'm just trying to remove the baffle so it become straight. And lets say that hypothetically I could do it perfectly, what would the effect be?

[Michael]

Would it be safe for me to VERY gently and carefully file down the baffle (with a nail file) ....

No. I seem to recall that you and I have discussed this on here before (then it was chamber, I think?). If you don't have years of refacing experience, anything like that that you do is quite likely to ruin the piece. Chamber, tip, rails, baffle, sidewalls, etc, etc, etc, require a great deal of experience to modify well.

If you're willing to gamble, go ahead. But it is not "safe."

Oh and yes, mfry told me I could do it with a dremel tool if I was careful so if I can take that risk of error I would guess baffle would be a lot safer but then again the baffle makes up most of the sound.

[MyMartinTenor]

Excellent! Good luck!

[Nefertiti]

I have a Selmer s90 and I bought it my 2nd year playing as my classical piece. I liked it because it was free blowing and I could get a great sound out of it. Unfortunately, I didn't know much about pieces and now I realize that free blowing might not be best, price isn't always quality, and much more. The S90 is more in between classical and jazz because of the rollover baffle and square chamber (particularly the baffle). Would it be safe for me to VERY gently and carefully file down the baffle (with a nail file) until it becomes more straight to get rid of the power to the sound and make it more tame?

Hey MP,
After all the posts and PM's looking for mouthpieces I'm curious what you ended up getting? I would personally not mess with a piece myself. I got cocky and messed with a florida link. Now I have to find someone who will fix it for me. I thought.........how hard can it be? Apparently pretty hard.

[Nefertiti]

Actually, that's what did me in was the Dremel. I was being really careful and feeling like I was doing a good job and then......woops. I slipped. Took a nice chunk out of a side rail. I should have just tried it on a cheap Yamaha 4C but No, I had to work on the florida link..........:shock:

[Pete Thomas]

And lets say that hypothetically I could do it perfectly, what would the effect be?

If you could actually do this perfectly instead of hyperthetically doing it perfectly, you'd get perfect results, ie the tamer sounding mouthpiece that you say you want. If this is what you now want instead of the great sound you say had earlier, then go for it as long as you don't mind ruining the mouthpiece.

However I'm not sure you actually know what method to use. First you say analfile, then fine sandpaper, then a dremel. This sounds like you do not really have the experience or knowledge to make the perfect job you mention hyperthetically.

[Michael]

I think a piece of me died inside 0-0
You took a dremel tool to a florida link O_O
I would rob houses for a florida.

I have a GW Meyer for alto that'll be coming soon. I'm a little nervous without the return policy but man you were ripping on your site. I really like that 'pretty brightness' as you described it.


And sadly, I haven't gotten my tenor piece yet. I haven't talked to anyone about a tenor piece in a little bit either. Thing is I love to have a really fat, subtone, focused sound which a lot of tenor pieces aren't like anymore. I also have a thing for bebop so I'll need another piece for that. Sigh...still searching.

Anyone want to end my misery and sell me a Slant Sig for $20 XD?

[Michael]

I was talking about a dremel for the chamber. I've used a nail file on a plastic ($5) tenor piece and it worked but it wasn't 100% clean so I'd guess a circular motion with a very fine sandpaper would be great.

Also I just got contact from Almartino (the godly sax player that not everyone knows about and lives on some island) and he says his favorite alto piece is a modern Otto Link Tone Edge 0-0

Just goes to show how everyone is different.

[Joe Giardullo]

IMO, the power comes from the square, narrow throat and not the baffle. A little work on the throat goes a long way. You may have to lower the baffle a little after that but I'd wait and see.

[Pete Thomas]

Thing is I love to have a really fat, subtone, focused sound which a lot of tenor pieces aren't like anymore. I also have a thing for bebop so I'll need another piece for that.

Why should you? Most players get by with one mouthpiece. I use one mouthpiece for rock & roll, ballads, bebop, pop, blues, funk, smooth and whatever, even classical sounding stuff that gets thrown at me by my clients from time to time.

[Michael]

Hmmm....thoughts. I'll have to ponder on it.

[Michael]

IMO, the power comes from the square, narrow throat and not the baffle. A little work on the throat goes a long way. You may have to lower the baffle a little after that but I'd wait and see.

If this is it why does the S80 have a more pure classical sound? It has an even smaller square throat

[Nefertiti]

I was talking about a dremel for the chamber. I've used a nail file on a plastic ($5) tenor piece and it worked but it wasn't 100% clean so I'd guess a circular motion with a very fine sandpaper would be great.

Also I just got contact from Almartino (the godly sax player that not everyone knows about and lives on some island) and he says his favorite alto piece is a modern Otto Link Tone Edge 0-0

Just goes to show how everyone is different.

My problem was how do you get the dremel into the chamber area. I was trying to snad farther down near the chamber i I didn't notice that the edge of the rotating pert of the dremel was hitting the side rail. A little part of me died inside also.............

[Michael]

Haha yes that is a big thing. Maybe they have some dremel that has a button that lets it expand out? But even then, even if I was an engineer I wouldn't have done that XP

BTW what's with double ring STM's? There's one on auction at ebay and it has hit $1200, it's been refaced by the random owner, and it has been on ebay for like 15 minutes. Are these just collectors or are they the real deal?

[Mal 2]

I have a Selmer s90 and I bought it my 2nd year playing as my classical piece. I liked it because it was free blowing and I could get a great sound out of it. Unfortunately, I didn't know much about pieces and now I realize that free blowing might not be best, price isn't always quality, and much more. The S90 is more in between classical and jazz because of the rollover baffle and square chamber (particularly the baffle). Would it be safe for me to VERY gently and carefully file down the baffle (with a nail file) until it becomes more straight to get rid of the power to the sound and make it more tame?

Sell it and buy something you like.

[Michael]

I have a Selmer s90 and I bought it my 2nd year playing as my classical piece. I liked it because it was free blowing and I could get a great sound out of it. Unfortunately, I didn't know much about pieces and now I realize that free blowing might not be best, price isn't always quality, and much more. The S90 is more in between classical and jazz because of the rollover baffle and square chamber (particularly the baffle). Would it be safe for me to VERY gently and carefully file down the baffle (with a nail file) until it becomes more straight to get rid of the power to the sound and make it more tame?

Sell it and buy something you like.

The S90 is less than popular for sure. Probably the most versatile piece I've played though.

[Mal 2]

If you insist on refacing, go get a couple handfuls of the $10 pieces that come with student horns and work on them. That way when you f*** up (and you will, I still do), you're out $10, not $60. Or try working on a Yamaha 4C ($25). When you can successfully open that up to a 6, then talk to us about baffle work on the S90. Baffle/chamber work is more difficult, takes longer, and has a higher risk of total mouthpiece destruction than refacing does. By contrast, putting in clay wedges is cheap, easy, and painless.

I wouldn't hesitate to work on your S90 if it were mine, the chances are in favor of improvement and it's not that expensive. I've worked on several S80s. That doesn't mean YOU should, yet.

Another hint -- baffle/chamber work FIRST, facing work LAST. That way if you slip and nick a rail or the tip, you don't destroy your hard-earned facing.

[Hr7star]

First you say analfile,
:shock:
I was interested at first but mpc refacing does sound a little too much for me to handle.

[bandmommy]

[

The S90 is less than popular for sure. Probably the most versatile piece I've played though.[/QUOTE]

If it's the "most versitile piece" you've played so far, why are you going to take the chance of ruining it?

That has to be one of the least intelligent things I've heard you say.
I take that back.
It sounds EXACTLY like something you would do.

Next will be a "HELP! I messed up my S90" thread.....

[Michael]

I mean it's versatile but it isn't great in each end if you know what I mean. I could EASILY use this in a classical saxophone performance playing Glazunov, oh wait I have. I could also EASILY use this as lead alto playing a solo in a jazz band playing take the A train, oh wait I have.

OTOH, if I used an A25, my glazunov would have sounded better IMO.
OTOH, if I used a V16, take the A train would have sounded better IMO.

[bandmommy]

You're not going to find the "perfect" mouthpiece for everything.
The sooner YOU understand that the better for US! We won't have to listen to the crying after the fact.

Leave the "most versitile" mouthpiece the hell alone.
If you have to screw something up, do it to a $5 piece.

[Michael]

Fine -__-
Based on your threads you seem like a real nice lady. Maybe I'm just pressing the wrong buttons.

[bandmommy]

If you do a little reading above my posts, you'll see that I'm not the only one telling you that what you want to do is a "not so smart" idea.

I'm just not afraid to be blunt about it.

[wisedude]

Yeah, if you like this piece at all, don't touch it. It is absolutely not safe for you to do anything to it that involves filing it..... If you want to learn, file some crap cheapos first

[Michael]

I'm not trying to learn to work with pieces (as far as this piece goes)

And I do like this piece as a piece, but not in general. If someone offered me a piece of half value like a Rousseau I'd trade.

I did some filing (very careful) and you can't even tell I did anything when it comes to feel. The piece is a lot more tame now. Very similar overall sound, but it doesn't have the monster inside. I like it a little more now. I think I'll file some more because I only started.

[Nefertiti]

MP,
Do you really think it's a good idea to ask for advice and then ignore everything people say and just do what you want anyways. Why even ask for advice? Next time you come asking for something you are going to get even more heated replies. Since this is a community here, you need to act in a way that's helps you build relationships and support. If you tick everyone off then it is not to your advantage unless you just don't care. I'm trying to help you out here. you had a ton of people spend their valuable time to post that you shouldn't file or work on a mouthpiece and then you went ahead and did it anyways. That is disrespectful to all of us. Just do your thing and don't ask us questions about it if you aren't going to even listen to the advice given.:?

[Michael]

I've worked on cheap mouthpieces before (advice from Mal 2) and Pete did mention that if I could do it very well then it would work. I just wanted to know what the effects would be. I wasn't worried about doing it well

[Michael]

Regardless, I do apologize now that I think more about it. I did neglect your advice. It isn't that I felt the advice was useless or stupid, I just thought that I would work on the piece as long as someone didn't explode with a HELL NO THAT IS TERRIBLE! Then I wouldn't be ultra-afraid

[jmoen3]

Regardless, I do apologize now that I think more about it. I did neglect your advice. It isn't that I felt the advice was useless or stupid, I just thought that I would work on the piece as long as someone didn't explode with a HELL NO THAT IS TERRIBLE! Then I wouldn't be ultra-afraid

"That has to be one of the least intelligent things I've heard you say.
I take that back.
It sounds EXACTLY like something you would do.

Next will be a "HELP! I messed up my S90" thread....."

Thought that would resemble a "HELL NO THAT IS TERRIBLE" pretty closely

[MyMartinTenor]

No one is going to say "hell no" -- its not our piece, if you want to risk ruining a piece, you're welcome to do so. Your question was "is it safe?" The answer is "no, if you want it to be a perfect piece. Sure its safe if you don't mind ruining it" -- you're not going to hurt yourself physically. All depends on what you mean by "safe."

Some of the sketicism you read here is because we have come to know you, admittedly in a very short time. You joined 3 months ago. Just 2.5 weeks ago you posted:


I have to ask what does facing, tip opening, etc. do? How does playing a Selmer E vs a D sound different and feel different?

It would also be very kind to explain the parts of the mouthpiece like baffle and tell what they do, etc. Thanks a bunch.

2.5 weeks, from "what's a baffle do", to making modifications. That's fine, but given that speed, its difficult for us to tell you its "safe." Carry on, have fun, good luck -- but that's the basis for part of the response you're hearing from people.

[Michael]

Guys, to be honest I am really sorry. I read through my posts and I sound come off as really arrogant. I get the advice of people more knowledgeable than me and go the other way because I feel like I'm right or at least I seem like I feel that way. I don't know as much as I think I might.

[hakukani]

At this point, you would be better served by learning to play the horn with what you have, and spend less time obsessing about equipment.

Now, obsessing about reeds is another matter...8-)

[Michael]

Anyone know of any websites I can use to progress my playing? I mean a site that starts from the start and goes up to the big stuff. I don't have a teacher for sax and I could get one but I have a bassoon teacher and my parents don't want to spend money both ways. I've seen sites that have embouchure, sites with altissimo, but never a site that goes step by step. I've played for awhile but I haven't played recently so my sound goes down the crapper and I want to build up and I can tell myself if I'm doing something wrong because I essentially I'm starting over

[DavidW]

At this point, you would be better served by learning to play the horn with what you have, and spend less time obsessing about equipment.

Now, obsessing about reeds is another matter...8-)

Then you can begin obsessing about reed boxes. I heard vintage boxes work better with Mark VI's.

[jmoen3]

Anyone know of any websites I can use to progress my playing? I mean a site that starts from the start and goes up to the big stuff. I don't have a teacher for sax and I could get one but I have a bassoon teacher and my parents don't want to spend money both ways. I've seen sites that have embouchure, sites with altissimo, but never a site that goes step by step. I've played for awhile but I haven't played recently so my sound goes down the crapper and I want to build up and I can tell myself if I'm doing something wrong because I essentially I'm starting over

:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead: :banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:

[blue boy]

Anyone know of any websites I can use to progress my playing? I mean a site that starts from the start and goes up to the big stuff. I don't have a teacher for sax and I could get one but I have a bassoon teacher and my parents don't want to spend money both ways. I've seen sites that have embouchure, sites with altissimo, but never a site that goes step by step. I've played for awhile but I haven't played recently so my sound goes down the crapper and I want to build up and I can tell myself if I'm doing something wrong because I essentially I'm starting over

Here is a "free" lesson ;) ...Long Tones w/ the tuning CD. (google the tuning CD)

and just out of curiosity (so I don't bang my head against a wall as well, see above)....how old are you? With all due respect, you seem to contradict yourself quite often and I can't tell if it is your writing skills or you just really don't know that you are doing it. Did you really have put everyone through this (and the Coltrane random notes thread) b/c "you haven't played recently"?

Good luck with your playing. Making music is a beautiful thing...much more beautiful than talking about it. Hit those long tones for a few weeks and come back and ask some more questions. All the best my friend.

[hakukani]

Anyone know of any websites I can use to progress my playing? I mean a site that starts from the start and goes up to the big stuff. I don't have a teacher for sax and I could get one but I have a bassoon teacher and my parents don't want to spend money both ways. I've seen sites that have embouchure, sites with altissimo, but never a site that goes step by step. I've played for awhile but I haven't played recently so my sound goes down the crapper and I want to build up and I can tell myself if I'm doing something wrong because I essentially I'm starting over

So, you're saying that you haven't even been playing or practicing?

Practice bassoon. More orchestra gigs, anyway...

[MojoBari]

My problem was how do you get the dremel into the chamber area. I was trying to snad farther down near the chamber i I didn't notice that the edge of the rotating pert of the dremel was hitting the side rail. A little part of me died inside also.............Two things can help. You can get a thin flex shaft so you can do most of the throat rework through the shank end. Micro-Mark sells one but it may not fit all rotary tools. I use an old Weller rotary tool that it fits. A variable speed foot control is handy too.

The other help is to get rotary cutters that have longer shafts. This way the thin shaft is near the side rails instead of the fat chuck nut.

[Michael]

Not for the gigs man, for the music.

I've just been busy. I've gotten the chance to play, just not to practice.




Anyone know of any websites I can use to progress my playing? I mean a site that starts from the start and goes up to the big stuff. I don't have a teacher for sax and I could get one but I have a bassoon teacher and my parents don't want to spend money both ways. I've seen sites that have embouchure, sites with altissimo, but never a site that goes step by step. I've played for awhile but I haven't played recently so my sound goes down the crapper and I want to build up and I can tell myself if I'm doing something wrong because I essentially I'm starting over

So, you're saying that you haven't even been playing or practicing?

Practice bassoon. More orchestra gigs, anyway...

[MojoBari]

I think he said he was 15 in one of his posts...

[hakukani]

Yes. I've seen firsthand how busy 15 year olds are.

[Michael]

Ah cmon, sports, AP classes, SAT's, and the immature habit of procrastination that dictates the lives of teens across the globe.

[DavidW]

You have time to post a hundred times a day and try to learn mouthpiece refacing, but no time to practice? :D

[Couf Player]

You have time to post a hundred times a day and try to learn mouthpiece refacing, but no time to practice? :D

+1

Time spent in the shed will be worth 10x as much at time spent working on a baffle that may or may not help

[jmoen3]

Again :banghead::banghead:

[bandmommy]

PLEASE! For all of our sakes spend more time on the working end of your horn, less time asking us for advice that you are to arrogant to take, and screwing up your gear.
Maybe if you did this you would discover the answers to most of your questions all by yourself. How do you think WE got so smart!?!

You can cry and whine about how I'm such a mean lady, but kid, your getting to be a real pain in the ***.
You ask, and ask, and ask. We answer, and answer, and answer. You ignore, and ignore, and ignore.
I have a feeling that if this continues, the next time you ask for help... you're not going to get it.

[fballatore]

It's like deja vu all over again...

[Laurel Moore]

I don't think there's any harm having a go yourself, if you are naturally the experimental type, instinctive by nature.
Just make sure you do your trial and error on a cheaper mp. So, if YOU CAN AFFORD TO LOSE IT, if it goes wrong. Why not? It isn't the holy grail!!

I had great fun sanding my own mp recently. And it turned out really well!! I posted my playing recently and people's response was generally favourable. I did a lot of research first and did achieve a richer sound.
Some people are of the naturally 'experimental' nature. And if that's you, you'll learn lots, just like I did.

Go to your fingernail department, where I discovered a great find: it's a nailfile, but has three gradients, all in the one tool! The last one being a 'buffer', which makes it really smooth. Start gently and work your way up. I even used a full-on boring tool, then smoothed it all down.

Additional: The responses you have received are from professionals/teachers. I would just clarify - I am not. But I still see no harm in doing this on a cheap mp. You may end up making them! ;)

[JSaxMiller]

MP,
Do you really think it's a good idea to ask for advice and then ignore everything people say and just do what you want anyways. Why even ask for advice? .

It's been my experience that some young people aren't really looking for advice but an affirmation that they are happening. I had a student similar to MP (young and precocious) who ignored my advice based on my real world experience (much like I did with my Father) and ended up doing everything the hard way. (Sigh):)http://forum.saxontheweb.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[Laurel Moore]

It's been my experience that some young people aren't really looking for advice but an affirmation that they are happening. I had a student similar to MP (young and precocious) who ignored my advice based on my real world experience (much like I did with my Father) and ended up doing everything the hard way. (Sigh):)http://forum.saxontheweb.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

Hey, do you know my son? :D:TGNCHK:

[Joe Giardullo]

" the hard way" JSaxMIller

Maybe a good idea for a new thread? There's plenty to be siad about "the hard way".

[Dr G]

It's been my experience that some young people aren't really looking for advice but an affirmation that they are happening. I had a student similar to MP (young and precocious)...

I think we have differing definitions of precocious. I think MP is merely young.

"Altricial" is more appropriate here.

[hakukani]

It's been my experience that some young people aren't really looking for advice but an affirmation that they are happening. I had a student similar to MP (young and precocious)...

I think we have differing definitions of precocious. I think MP is merely young.

"Altricial" is more appropriate here.

Now THERE's a word I haven't heard in awhile!

[Nefertiti]

It's been my experience that some young people aren't really looking for advice but an affirmation that they are happening. I had a student similar to MP (young and precocious)...

I think we have differing definitions of precocious. I think MP is merely young.

"Altricial" is more appropriate here.

Now THERE's a word I haven't heard in awhile!

I've never heard it!

[hakukani]

It's been my experience that some young people aren't really looking for advice but an affirmation that they are happening. I had a student similar to MP (young and precocious)...

I think we have differing definitions of precocious. I think MP is merely young.

"Altricial" is more appropriate here.

Now THERE's a word I haven't heard in awhile!

I've never heard it!

It's the opposite of 'precocial' (precocious). I suppose there could be a word altricious, but I've never heard it. I like words.

The opposite of misogyny is misandry. Cool, huh.

[Dr G]

I think we have differing definitions of precocious. I think MP is merely young.

"Altricial" is more appropriate here.

Now THERE's a word I haven't heard in awhile!

I've never heard it!

- requires nourishment, helpless at birth, helpless in general in this application.

[MojoBari]

I think all of the refacers have had private Emails sent to them by MP too, with various questions. They seem like legitimate questions but considering the scope and volume of them, it feels like I'm feeding a troll when I answer. My son is 17 and his passion is DCI now. I dont think he drove anyone nuts (but his parents a little) at 15. I feel blessed.

[Mal 2]

It's been my experience that some young people aren't really looking for advice but an affirmation that they are happening. I had a student similar to MP (young and precocious)...

I think we have differing definitions of precocious. I think MP is merely young.

"Altricial" is more appropriate here.

How about both in one... maybe "atrocious"? :TGNCHK:

[jicaino]

Educating is placing an unwilling individual into a non receptive enviroment.

EDIT: I learned how to face, reface and do chamber work screwing up perfectly good MPCs (more than just once, they were brand new expensive MPCs). If you're curious about what happens and you're smart enough to relate what you did with the change in response, tone, dynamics and such, you'll be on your path to learn about MPCs. It will cost you more than one hard head banging against the wall and you'll... ehhmmm.... "invest" quite a load of money into gear that you'll ruin in the process of learning, and maybe, maybe you can fix it up again someday along the road.

[wisedude]

As much as I agree that this kid posts too frequently and doesn't appear to really listen to the responses he gets, maybe it's time we all lay off him. If he doesn't have problems now, he will after reading all the stuff being said. Come on guys...... If I read this stuff about me I'd feel really bad

[Tryptykon]

He seems like a young guy looking for sax-related information on a
saxophone forum in the information(internet) age.

I haven't followed his every post, but I've seen alot of them,
and I'm not getting any big red flags from what I've seen .

Am I missing something in particular that you've seen posted here to
indicate [more grave concerns] ?

[Tryptykon]

Yes. I've seen firsthand how busy 15 year olds are.

Do any of them have 15,000+ posts ? :D

[jicaino]

Hey, at least he's not playing half a song "for the rhythm section to hear it" then trying to charge his band buddy for teaching him to play that. You gotta give him that.

I bet he's a bit hard headed and thinks all of us old farts never thought about the things he thinks being so young and hip. I know the feeling... every generation believes they discovered booze, drugs, sex, etc etc and that the "old farts" don't know sh*t about that.

[hakukani]

Yes. I've seen firsthand how busy 15 year olds are.

Do any of them have 15,000+ posts ? :D

Not yet.

If you read the question, it says "I've seen first hand how busy 15 year olds are. "

They can be very busy, and be able to post, just as I am.

However, I don't start dozens of threads.

[fballatore]

Thread closed for review.

[fballatore]

Thread re-opened. I trust that all comments will be kept on topic and remain civil. I'm not interested in taking time out to prune the thread again later.

[Tryptykon]

Yes. I've seen firsthand how busy 15 year olds are.

Do any of them have 15,000+ posts ? :D

Not yet.

If you read the question, it says "I've seen first hand how busy 15 year olds are. "

They can be very busy, and be able to post, just as I am.

However, I don't start dozens of threads.

I know .. you're very busy .

[Michael]

I just want to apologize for my explosion. I promise I'm not naturally that way, I'm actually very submissive and quiet to an extent. On the web I often forget I'm talking to real people and typing is the equivalent of speaking in a sense. I had a buildup of frustration and I let it all out. I didn't realize this until I removed my post. I think I'm going to relax on posting threads, show some love with the search function, and just sit down and enjoy myself.

Regards,
Michael

[Tryptykon]

Michael - don't worry about it .

You're ok . :)

[Michael]

No, what I did was inexcuseable. I have no right to be so hateful no matter how aggravating the post was in insult to me or my family. I know better than that.

[cpete]

No, what I did was inexcuseable. I have no right to be so hateful no matter how aggravating the post was in insult to me or my family. I know better than that.

I'd rather see a kid with a bit of fire and enthusiasm than one with his head hung down. Keep experimenting, keep questioning. Sometimes you have to be fearless. Respectful sure, but still fearless. I've been to the top of more heaps than one and that's how you get there.

[hakukani]

Then, the adage comes to mind. "It's easier to ask forgiveness, than to ask permission".

But don't come whining to us, because we'll just say 'told ya so!"

Tryp, get off my okole.

[hakukani]

Yes. I've seen firsthand how busy 15 year olds are.

Do any of them have 15,000+ posts ? :D

Not yet.

If you read the question, it says "I've seen first hand how busy 15 year olds are. "

They can be very busy, and be able to post, just as I am.

However, I don't start dozens of threads.

I know .. you're very busy .

In the boring defense of myself, I have a lot of posts--but I've only started 56 threads.

I read and post much fewer hours than most ******** watch TV.

[Tryptykon]

Yes. I've seen firsthand how busy 15 year olds are.

Do any of them have 15,000+ posts ? :D

Not yet.

If you read the question, it says "I've seen first hand how busy 15 year olds are. "

They can be very busy, and be able to post, just as I am.

However, I don't start dozens of threads.

I know .. you're very busy .

In the boring defense of myself, I have a lot of posts--but I've only started 56 threads.

I read and post much fewer hours than most ******** watch TV.

No defense necessary Hack; boring or not - I was only joking . :)

[Dr G]

No, what I did was inexcuseable. I have no right to be so hateful no matter how aggravating the post was in insult to me or my family. I know better than that.

Thank you.

FWIW, I read Bandmommy's post as one of concern rather than an attack on you. That said, we all must periodically reflect that the message sent is not always the message that is received - that once a message is sent, it is up to the receiver to interpret that message in their own context.

Regarding criticism: An effective means of using criticism in one's life is to evaluate the criticism - is it valid? If not, let it go, ignore it. If so, consider how best to use it.

[Tryptykon]

No, what I did was inexcuseable. I have no right to be so hateful no matter how aggravating the post was in insult to me or my family. I know better than that.

Thank you.

FWIW, I read Bandmommy's post as one of concern rather than an attack on you.

It was still in bad taste to inquire [publically] if a [fellow member's] parents
are " emotionally unavailable ", or whatever nonsense that was .

Sorry, bad form .

[domo]

I was talking about a dremel for the chamber. I've used a nail file on a plastic ($5) tenor piece and it worked but it wasn't 100% clean so I'd guess a circular motion with a very fine sandpaper would be great.

Also I just got contact from Almartino (the godly sax player that not everyone knows about and lives on some island) and he says his favorite alto piece is a modern Otto Link Tone Edge 0-0

Just goes to show how everyone is different.

My problem was how do you get the dremel into the chamber area. I was trying to snad farther down near the chamber i I didn't notice that the edge of the rotating pert of the dremel was hitting the side rail. A little part of me died inside also.............

I feel your pain Neff. I had the Exact same Dremel accident with my Hand Made Guardala about 9 yrs ago.
Buy the re-chargable battery Dremel. It will work at lower speeds and is Much easier to control!!
Two quick fixes for your rail issue, would be JB weld or Jet Magic from Ferrees. Both will hold up well. Mix up a small amount, dab a little on, let it dry, and file or sand. Jet magic is a little less runny when wet, but if you keep the Florida clamped on its side in one place, then either should be easy to work with.

I just worked on my one of my Florida's yesterday, thought I ruined it, then I managed to bring it back to a great "balanced" spot. I was so relieved, I was sweating bullets for a while!

[domo]

IMO, the power comes from the square, narrow throat and not the baffle. A little work on the throat goes a long way. You may have to lower the baffle a little after that but I'd wait and see.

This piece of good advice kind of got lost in the shuffle! :)

I've found the throat area to effect the focus vs spread part of the sound. (In association with the side walls) Which can also take the brightness away in the process. The throat area can also effect the "body" of the low end and response.

IMO, most of the brightness or darkness in the sound is within an inch from the tip, where the reed vibrates the most.

tools: 800-1000 carbon sand paper glued on a Popsicle stick, a small very fine threaded file (buy a batch of 10 for $5 at Harbor Freights) or some steel wool wrapped around a pencil :)

Then right where the side rails meet the tip rail (3-5 mm's back from the tip rail) take a a little off at a time, evenly as you can in a parallel line from the tip. Work within this 1/4 of an inch area.

Ralph Morgan told a friend of mine: "Cut once, Play once".

Make a line, then play it.

[domo]

My problem was how do you get the dremel into the chamber area. I was trying to snad farther down near the chamber i I didn't notice that the edge of the rotating pert of the dremel was hitting the side rail. A little part of me died inside also.............Two things can help. You can get a thin flex shaft so you can do most of the throat rework through the shank end. Micro-Mark sells one but it may not fit all rotary tools. I use an old Weller rotary tool that it fits. A variable speed foot control is handy too.

The other help is to get rotary cutters that have longer shafts. This way the thin shaft is near the side rails instead of the fat chuck nut.

The Dremel flex shaft attachment, does not have a long enough shaft to reach the side rails from the shank. And I haven't been able to find Dremel bits with longer shafts.

So I guess I'll try and find a Weller.

[jicaino]

Dremel old flex shaft was thinner than newer stubby rubber grip versions. It has something like 1/2" shaft OD. As for long shank burrs, they show up on ebay. There's a seller who wholesales used tungsten carbide long shank burrs in assorted 1 pound packages. They've been used on die making with soft metals, sometimes you see a chipped tooth here or there, but those burrs goes for 60 bucks and more each at a retailer, and I got the pound pack for 20 something bucks shipped.

[domo]

IMO, the power comes from the square, narrow throat and not the baffle. A little work on the throat goes a long way. You may have to lower the baffle a little after that but I'd wait and see.

This piece of good advice kind of got lost in the shuffle! :)

I've found the throat area to effect the focus vs spread part of the sound. (In association with the side rails) Which can also take the brightness away in the process. The throat area can also effect the "body" of the low end and response.

IMO, most of the brightness or darkness in the sound is within an inch from the tip, where the reed vibrates the most.

tools: 800-1000 carbon sand paper glued on a Popsicle stick, a small very fine threaded file (buy a batch of 10 for $5 at Harbor Freights) or some steel wool wrapped around a pencil :)

Then right where the side rails meet the tip rail (3-5 mm's back from the tip rail) take a a little off at a time, evenly as you can in a perpendicular line from the tip. Work within this 1/4 of an inch area.

Ralph Morgan told a friend of mine: "Cut once, Play once".

Make a line, then play it.

Oops!
I guess that would be a parallel line with the tip rail!

*note* I just discovered the edit button, so I fixed my previous post.
Now all I need is a delete button.

[domo]

Dremel old flex shaft was thinner than newer stubby rubber grip versions. It has something like 1/2" shaft OD. As for long shank burrs, they show up on ebay. There's a seller who wholesales used tungsten carbide long shank burrs in assorted 1 pound packages. They've been used on die making with soft metals, sometimes you see a chipped tooth here or there, but those burrs goes for 60 bucks and more each at a retailer, and I got the pound pack for 20 something bucks shipped.

Good to know! Thanks!

[domo]

IMO, the power comes from the square, narrow throat and not the baffle. A little work on the throat goes a long way. You may have to lower the baffle a little after that but I'd wait and see.

This piece of good advice kind of got lost in the shuffle! :)

I've found the throat area to effect the focus vs spread part of the sound. (In association with the side rails) Which can also take the brightness away in the process. The throat area can also effect the "body" of the low end and response.

IMO, most of the brightness or darkness in the sound is within an inch from the tip, where the reed vibrates the most.

tools: 800-1000 carbon sand paper glued on a Popsicle stick, a small very fine threaded file (buy a batch of 10 for $5 at Harbor Freights) or some steel wool wrapped around a pencil :)

Then right where the side rails meet the tip rail (3-5 mm's back from the tip rail) take a a little off at a time, evenly as you can in a perpendicular line from the tip. Work within this 1/4 of an inch area.

Ralph Morgan told a friend of mine: "Cut once, Play once".

Make a line, then play it.

Where's my delete button?

[oldcorollas]

mpartlow, can you take some pictures of the work you have done? it would be interesting to see

[Michael]

Sure but it's not pretty right now so wait until Sunday so I can sand out some of the scratches. I just did the base process and am working my way into it

[oldcorollas]

thats perfectly fine, just take some pictures now, and then again when you have sanded out the scratches.
you can upload them to photobucket for free also. :)

looking forward to your pictures.

[Michael]

BTW couldn't you use a micrometer to get the rails ultra accurate? I'm trying to find a way to make the mpc very even

[mfry]

BTW couldn't you use a micrometer to get the rails ultra accurate? I'm trying to find a way to make the mpc very even

If you're talking about getting the width of the rails the same, eyeballing it is accurate enough. Symmetry in this parameter isn't very important to performance. The important thing to get right with the rails is that they're exactly the same opening the same distance from the tip. The way that everybody who does this does this is with a glass gauge and feeler gauges. While you're doing this, you also need to plot the curve and make sure that it's smooth, and not too short and not too long because otherwise the piece won't play worth a crap no matter what else you do right.

If you're messing with the curve, measuring it and getting it right is indespensable. You'll never get a good piece if you do this area wrong no matter what else you do right.

[Hal Cooper]

Never file down the baffle. This is the wrong way to do it. The baffle is very touchy. Lots of modifications relate to it. I'm glad make your MPC darker.

http://mysite.verizon.net/~portallatro/

[Michael]

Mr. Cooper, what would you have done? I'm trying to get into learning mouthpiece work (not to a highly professional business extent, but to where I can make a satisfying mouthpiece for myself, and adjust my own mouthpieces for small things)

[Pete Thomas]

Never file down the baffle. This is the wrong way to do it. The baffle is very touchy. Lots of modifications relate to it. I'm glad make your MPC darker.

http://mysite.verizon.net/~portallatro/

Surely if it's a high baffle mouthpiece, there is plenty of room to tale some off. I have done this very successfully with a Vandoren.

[Joe Giardullo]

Re: the discussion on not touching baffles.....

I reshape baffles all the time. Mostly I find they are way too long. Just my experience on soprano pieces, FWIW.