Been playing a year, and suddenly I found a mystery key...

[Konrad]

on my sax. Could it be a high F or F#?

Basically, it is just above and to the fore of the right hand palm/knuckle keys... I've noticed that when I play a high E or F I get a better pitch when I also hold this key down.

Can anyone give me the definitive word here? I'm kind of embarrassed because I am approaching the intermediate level and never noticed this.

Konrad

[Cameron Wigmore]

Does the mechanism connect to a key at the very top of your sax, or is the pad near your thumb rest? If it's the first, it's a high F#. If the latter, it's the alternate F# trill key.

[kcp]

This is what the high F# key and the alternative F# thrill key (Low F#) look like.
http://www.geocities.com/b-flat/cartoon/hiflowf.jpg
(http://www.geocities.com/b-flat/cartoon/hiflowf.jpg)

[Konrad]

It appears to be a high F# key.

Isn't that interesting...

So should I hold it down when I play the high E to get a better tone?

Also, how do I play a high F# without using altissimo then? Which keys do I press?

K

[Konrad]

wait, I take it back. It's near the thumb rest, so I guess it's a trill key.

When do I use it? With high notes? It seems kind of useless.

K

[Shaun SS]

You can use it all over the place. Play F then hit the key, it'll play F#.

Here are a couple places it can be used.

F# Major scale (Relative minor being D#minor)
C blues scale

It will also be used in some marches and things like that. Hope that helps.

[Shaun SS]

I also forgot to say you can use it to make large slow bends from G-F if you work on technique.

[Konrad]

Thanks Shaun!

[Konrad]

Actually, I looked at the photo, and it appears that it is not the trill key, but the high F#, so does this mean that I still play a high F and then hold it down to get F#?

Sorry to be an idiot... This whole time I have been playing altissimo to get F#, and it sure would be a lot easier to just key it.

K

[Dave Dolson]

Konrad: If it is truly a hi-F#, open octave key and hold all high keys open; then touch the F# key with your right ring finger. OR use the front hi-F and touch the hi-F# key with your right middle or ring finger.

I've been following this thread and was curious about what kind of saxophone (make and model) you have? Older saxophones may not have a hi-F# key. Some newer models go to hi-G. DAVE

[Konrad]

Dave,

I have an old Weltklang. It's an East German sax and I've noticed the keywork is not quite the same as on say Yamahas...

Now I am confused... So you don't hold down the octave key but play the high F# key?

All right. I'll have to try it.

K

[Konrad]

So I think you mean that I hold the octave key down and also the left hand Eflat, D and F palm keys, then touch the high F#, right? Do I hold down any of the right-hand palm keys?

K

[Dave Dolson]

Konrad: Yes, open all of the highest keys (just like you were playing a normal hi-F), then open that newly-discovered hi-F#, too.

OR, you can use the hi-F# key in conjunction with the front-F (which is used when playing passing notes to avoid having to rapidly apply all of the left and right-hand high keys; and of course, open the ocatve key).

But, like you said, it is easy enough to try all the alternatives and determine for yourself what works best. DAVE

[Konrad]

Thanks guys...

However, now I that I know where the high F# is, I also know that I definitely do not have one... I was looking at the pic wrong, I guess.

Don't kill me. I'm as frustrated as you are.

I have a low F#, but what I am talking about is another key a bit higher and to the fore of the right hand top knuckle key or the E. There is yet another key about even with the E and more to the front of the sax.

That's the mystery key...

K

[Dave Dolson]

Konrad: Okay, I am de-cocking now; there, it is back in my holster.

If you can take a digital photo, you can e-mail it to me and I'll see if I know what that thing is! DAVE (jazzdolson@attbi.com)

[Konrad]

Hey Dave,

I don't have a digital camera at the moment--maybe tomorrow. But is there a website with a pic of the whole saxophone and key labels? Maybe it is something standard, but it's not listed in Teal book or in the Polish book I have, and I can't make it out on any other pics...

K

[Dave Dolson]

Konrad: Try Saxpics.com - I haven't visited there recently but I recall he had many photos of various saxophones (good vintage horns). He is a poster on this site, as well.

You may not be able to locate a photo of your horn, though. Also, I don't think you specified the model of yours, other than the brand name. Is it a soprano, alto . . .?.

Also, it is a simple matter to experiment with the mystery key - what happens when you use it in various fingering configurations?

Most saxophones have similar key work. For the right hand, there should be three pearls for your index, middle, and ring finger tips. Then, for your right little finger, there will be two spatulas (with rollers between them) for low Eb and C.

On the right side of the horn, to the right of the finger touches will be an F# lever or button (for an alternate middle F# fingering; right index finger down and open the side lever to sound F#).

The newest horns may also have a hi-F# key in this area. Some pro horns (Serie III, Yana S922, etc.) will also have a hi-G key which appears as if the F# and G keys have been split in half; the lower one opens hi-F#, the upper one opens hi-G.

Vintage saxophones, such as old Buescher True-Tones and Conns may also have an extra right-hand pearl that allows the player to trill middle G# with a right finger. This pearl lies outside the three regular pearls but just to the right . . . and only raises for finger access when the player presses the Ab/G# key with the left pinky.

That is about the extent of it, as I recall. I'll bet your horn has some of those I've described. DAVE

[MarkD]

Konrad,

Here's another viewpoint on this subject.

How many keys do you have between the 3 right hand "side keys" (High F, side C, & Bb) and the right hand "pinky" keys (Low C & Eb)?

If you have only one "in between" key then it is probably the "trill" F# key.
If you have 2 keys then you are probably the lucky owner of a "high F#" in addition to the "trill" F# key.
If you have 3 keys then you are really lucky: you probably have "high G", "high F#", and the trill key.

Good Luck,
MarkD

[Konrad]

The key I'm talking about is not down there. It's up closer to my first finger, but to the front of the sax, not under my palm. It's to the front! That's why I don't know what it is.

[max]

In terms of pads openinng and/or closing, what happens when you press it? Experiment with having different fingers down when you press it so you can see the interactions. What toneholes open or close?

[max]

(obviously, the toneholes themselves don't open or close... :oops: )

[Dave Dolson]

Konrad: We've been down a long road here. You need to tell us what happens when you press the mystery key . . . what opens or closes when you do so? From your latest description, I'm wondering if the mystery key may be an alternate G# key which would allow you to open G# with your right hand instead of your left? DAVE

[max]

Does it look like this:

http://www.junkdude.com/saxes/pics/hs032e.jpg

This is a Holton "Rudy Wiedoeft" Soprano Saxophone (pic from junkdude.com). I've never played one of these, but from the description, it sounds like it might be a high D trill key...

[electricninja]

From what I remember (I could be wrong), it's supposed to be useful with chromatic passages in the D-G range.

[pfox]

Since Konrad never got back to us on what this key actually does, I'll just say that I recently got a Holton bari, and the odd key in the picture is a right hand G# on mine. I've only played the horn a few times, and just found this thread, so I haven't listened to it yet, but the only pad it opens is the same one the regular G# works on. Anyone have any more info on the Holton Bari? Aside from the negatives, please, I'm aware that it will never grow up to be a Selmer. It's old, it's beat up, but it's mine, and I don't play where many humans are near.

[Konrad]

Hey guys...

Sorry about the delay!!!

It looks like that could be it!

But I play tenor, so is it possible?

K

[disgruntleddave]

sure. it could likely be it. so its not an f#3 key (it doesnt open something really high), and its not an f#1/2 key (it doesnt open something right above E and below F)?

if its not, then its a key ive never seen before.

[pfox]

Without seeing an actual picture of Konrad's horn, I'm going by the above picture, and no, it doesn't open anything high, and only opens the pad between the F and G pads, like I said, the same as the G# key on the left hand side. This is the first bari I've ever seen close up, much less played, so I really am not the one to give much advice. Lots of pads on these puppies, huh?

[pfox]

Konrad, did you ever determine what pad that key opens?

[Paul Coats]

Conrad said he has "an old Weltklang." I doubt that instrument has a high F# key.

Conrad, that key touch opens a pad between the G and F pads, and is called the "chromatic F#". F# can be played two ways in the upper or lower register. First is with the 123 fingers of the left hand down, and the 2 finger of the right hand. The second way is 123 fingers of the left hand down, and 1 finger of the right, and with the 3 finger (ring finger) of the right, press the chromatic F# key. For musical passages that go from F to F#, the chromatic F# key is smoother than switching 1 and 2 fingers.

[Konrad]

Hey guys,

Thanks for the answers. I showed a buddy and he thought it was cool that I had such a key--he said it's not normal--but then we started talking about something else and...

I never found out what it was!!!!


!!!!

Oh well.

I think Paul C. is right.