Borgani saxophones

[flora3]

I´m curious about the lack of posts regarding Borgani saxophones - I´ve seen one discussion with lots of posts - but recently nobody make statements about these horns. Is it because that very few people play them or... :?:
Regards Flora3

[newking70]

:( Nobody can afford them :!:

[josephmd]

They are sold only at Roberto's in the U.S. and yes, they are expensive. They are handmade and it is my understanding that Borgani makes 30 per month. However, if you consider who plays them (Lovano, Marsalis) I believe that speaks volumes. Played one (alto) last week at Roberto's. Great ergonomics and sound. I want one!

[flora3]

Hi again
Well the reason I posted this is because ...I have a Borgani 8) sorry for bragging, but I´m very pleased with it.
Its a curved silver sop 157 J - and I just wanted to hear if other members are playing this kind of horn too and their experience with it.
Regards Flora3

[brassnaked]

I just bought(ordered) a new Borgani Vintage Tenor, the unlacquered brass one. I just found out today, I should have it by next weekend! I paid close to $5200.00 for it. Is that a lot of money? Sure it is...is that alot of saxophone, OH YEAH!!! Honestly, after playing several Borgani tenors at Roberto's last weekend, there was NO WAY I was going to continue playing the junk I've been playing, all mostly new mid $3000 production horns. Every one of them played out of tune at least somewhere. When I played the Borgani, I realized it's the FIRST and ONLY horn out of about 30-35 different ones I've played so far, that has played TOTALLY in tune from top to bottom...and the tone? He,he,he,he,he.....OH MY!!! I would have paid twice that for it now knowing and experiencing the VAST difference in quality and sound. When you try "other" horns and you can't tell much difference...there probably isn't...when you play another horn and your whole world changes after the first 2 notes....HOW DO YOU PUT A PRICE ON THAT?

[dolphyo]

i found on a british sax retailer whose name escapes me now(will post later) borgani now makes a saxello and you can get your borgani in a pink gold finish! choices choices...

[Morry]

They are sold only at Roberto's in the U.S. and yes, they are expensive. They are handmade and it is my understanding that Borgani makes 30 per month. However, if you consider who plays them (Lovano, Marsalis) I believe that speaks volumes. Played one (alto) last week at Roberto's. Great ergonomics and sound. I want one!

I don't think who does or does not play a particular brand is of much importance. There are plenty of guys that are in Lovano and Marsalis' league that play other brands, so that tells you nothing. Also, they are other reasons that guys play particular horns. Mainly, monetary support. I don't honestly believe that Richard Elliot thinks the L.A. Sax is the best horn ever made.

The Borgani may, indeed be "all that and a bag of chips", but who plays them is no indication.

[Randall]

I used to play a very old Borgani soprano that was pretty good, no.... surprisingly good for the money, but nothing to write home about. Still, it served my needs well at the time.

To be honest, I am a tad bit sceptical about the hype on the newer horns.
Same with the R&C horns....
Plus the prices for these horns are bordering on usery.
Still, I AM interested to give these newer horns a shot....but in no uncertain terms would I be willing to pay 5200.00 for it.

I KNOW that a lot of famous pro's endorse just for the cash. I am not casting doubt on everyone who endorses, but I have some very high profile pro friends who do not use what they endorse for much longer than it takes to shoot a photo of them with said product.

[josephmd]

There are endorsements and there are endorsements. Lovano chose the Borgani to record his latest CD. He also contributed to the design. This is a small family run company. Laura Dreyer reviewed saxophones two issues ago in the Saxophone Journal and had nice things to say about all of the horns. What she said about Borgani mirrors Lovano's comment (a conspiracy, perhaps) and speaks to the sound of the horn. I play a silver pearl alto and what I like best about this horn is the sound. For me, it sounds better than the other modern horns on the market. And that, of course, is the only reason to spend hard earned dollars.

[SAXISMYAXE]

I agree. Among all of the current production pro horns available, the Borgani is my favorite. It comes closest in sound to my favorite vintage models. The price is a little steep, but you do get a great modern horn for the money. I had a Ref 36 horn for about two years, and although I liked it initially, I decided after playing it for awhile that it didn't quite stack up to my SBA, and sold it. After I tried the Pearl Gold Borgani Tenor a few months back, I was tempted to spend the big bucks to add one to my collection, but decided I'd rather get another "brace" of Martin's for the same money.
I will say that Borgani really need to promote their horns through more dealers if they want to have a chance in the U.S. though. :x

[Randall]

Need I remind you Joe Lovano also endorsed LA Sax? :roll:

Still I would agree with the above post...they need to get thier distribution worked out better. If these horns are really "all that" (and I hope they are!) then a few more dealers will be good to get the word out and prices down.

[josephmd]

My original comment was not who endorsed them but who played them. Consider that Borgani makes 300 horns per year- that's 6 per week worldwide. They don't really need to ramp up their distribution. These are beautiful handmade horns produced by the best craftsmen in the world, not mass produced (and marketed) instruments.

[flora3]

Just want to make a comment on which horn Lovano is playing mostly.
He have in the the recent years been playing Borgani tenor and sop.
Everytime I´ve seen him 6 times since 2002, it has exclusively been Borgani saxophones he performed with. Sometimes he has been using Fl ligs and sometimes his selmer vintage screwless lig instead. (on tenor)
Flora3

[flora3]

And I know that, Tim Garland, Bob Rockwell, Emmanuele Cisi, Pietro Tonolo for sure are using them and I´ve heard that David Sanchez is using them too.
Flora3

[sw3119]

Just want to make a comment on which horn Lovano is playing mostly.
He have in the the recent years been playing Borgani tenor and sop.
Everytime I´ve seen him 6 times since 2002, it has exclusively been Borgani saxophones he performed with. Sometimes he has been using Fl ligs and sometimes his selmer vintage screwless lig instead. (on tenor)
Flora3

The last time I saw Lovano he was playing a straight alto :shock: (pain in the **** to mic)
Do you know if that is Borgani or if not who makes it :?:

Has anyone on hear played a straight alto :?:

[Hurling Frootmig]

I have a straight alto. Not a big pain to mic in the studio. The only problem I find with it is playing in an ensemble as you don't hear yourself as well as a regular curved alto.

Joe had a bit to do with the LA Sax straight tenor so perhaps he has one of their straight altos as well.

[josephmd]

Borgani does not currently make a straight alto to my knowledge.

[gary]

Well, here we go again, LOL. I suppose the models of horns is a factor and obviously the player, but I played with a burnin' player a couple of weeks ago in a big band and combo who was playing a silver Borgani alto and I thought the overall sound was a bit harsh. Different strokes...and all that, wot?

[josephmd]

Whether I play my Conn 6M or my Borgani, I usually wind up sounding like myself.

[Pinnman]

Browsing on the SaxophoneHeaven site (Allegro Music, Oxford, England), I find:

Tenor: NEW MODEL BORGANI VINTAGE Mk2. UNLACQUERED BRUSHED FINISH. 100% HANDCRAFTED. Join Joe Lovano,Tim Garland, Art Themen,David Sanchez,Branford Marsalis etc. To achieve THE UNIQUE SOUND. BEST IN WORLD.

Ato: NEW BORGANI "130" Solid sterling silver crook and bell Todays King "Silversonic" Limited edition Only one in UK STOP PRESS BRANFORD MARSALIS JUST TAKEN DELIVERY OF HIS JAN 2004.

NEW BORGANI Silver Pearlised Exclusive handcrafted FABULOUS. Very similar to 24K Gold Pearlised model but with slightly more projecting SOUND.STOP PRESS DAVID SANCHEZ TO USE THIS MODEL IN 2004

I put this up for what it is worth. I do not have a Borgani, although I owned an older student moodel soprano for a short while that I was not enamoured with. The bandwagon is interesting, but I am not ready for it yet.

[dolphyo]

ON THE SAME ALLEGRO MUSIC UK SITE THEY LIST A BORGANI PINK GOLD HORN AND A BORGANI SAXELLO. GO FIGURE? 'IMAGINATION IS FUNNY, IT MAKES A CLOUDY DAY SUNNY'.

[Mike24]

I live in Oxford and I've tried out the Pink-Gold Alto, it's not really pink, it looks more like bronze than anything else. They a pearlised Pink-Gold one too which looks a rather camp shade of peach and has silver keys? They both play really well though! I'm thinking of getting a Borgani Alto, any recommendations as to which finish to go for? Roger, the proprietor of Allegro Oxford tells me he's pursuaded Borgani to create an alto with the same spec as the Joe Lovano tenor, might just wait for that?

[josephmd]

I played the pearl gold and pearl silver. Liked the sound of the silver and bought it. Been playing it for 9 months now. My only complaint is low B- it is reed and mouthpiece fussy.

[Dr G]

I played the pearl gold and pearl silver. Liked the sound of the silver and bought it. Been playing it for 9 months now. My only complaint is low B- it is reed and mouthpiece fussy.

Low B is a fussy note on many horns - and often the most revealing that there is a minor leak somewhere else on the horn. My silver pearl Jubilee plays easily (at all volume levels) all the way to the bottom even with a Lamberson J8 (.120"). Check your horn's setup for leaks.

[josephmd]

I had a tech go over it and he couldn't find a leak. A cork in the bell corrects it. I suppose I could have another tech go over it. Other than the B it plays really well. Beautiful sound.

[Rubel]

Just for the record, I had heard that Branford and Joe played these, and when I saw them both in concert in Toronto (Branford is Oct, Joe in May, I believe) Branford was playing a selmer balanced or super balanced, and joe was playing a stripped mark VI. I think it's not who plays what sax, but who plays what sax WHEN. If you play the Borgani for the Borgani photo shoot, it doesn't say much. But when you DON'T play it at your CD Release Party, it says a LOT.

Rubel

P.S. Sorry to drag up an old thread.

[Stan]

A Super Balanced Action is a Super Balanced Action and a Mark VI is a Mark VI. When a VI (or a SBA) plays a note its a note!
Nothing to do in my hopinion with quite anything else... that's the reason why top players mainly play these two saxophones.
Borgani are good handmade saxophones wich play well in tune with an interesting warm sound and projection. Nothing more nothing less.

Stan

[BayviewSax]

I was encouraged (bullied) by a pro who shall remain nameless to try a Borgani when I was in Amsterdam this summer. The silver-plated horn was nice, good projection/intonation, decent ergos, but the gold-plated horn was stuffy, and lacked a good feel. The shop (Amsterdam Winds) had just sold one to Ravi Coltrane, which the unnamed pro kept harping on like a mantra. He then asked one of the owners if they one I was trying had had their repad. It had not and he stressed what a difference that made. A repad? On a brand new horn? Are you bloody kidding me? For reference, I then tried a 99,xxx Mark VI. No comparison. The Borg was a toy. Moral of the story, try whatever nameplate you want, but there is a reason some horns have the rep they do.

[sopranofreak]

Just to add another point of view to when and why pros play Borganis - Tim Garland also has a Super Balanced Action but takes his Borgani everywhere with him. Why? Because he says he gets 10% more usable reeds out of each box with the Borgani... Now that's exacting! ;)

[kledbet]

I own and play a Pearl Silver Tenor Borgani, and of all my saxes it is my favorite tenor. Everywhere I go someone tells me they love the beautiful warm sound of the Borgani. Don't expect it to play like a Mark VI, it does not. It is a much bigger bore horn and blows easily all the way down to the bottom Bb. It plays totally in tune and is just plain easy to play. A friend of mine who plays trumpet heard me playing in another room, he came in and said,"play that again" the then said," that sounds great, what kind of sax is that". He mentioned he had never heard me sound that good. Anyway the Borgani is truly a fantastic horn, and if you get one be sure to get it set up by Randy Jones at Tenor Madness. He made my Borgani come to life, it was kind of stuffy right out of the box. Randy opened it up and made it a joy to play. If you want a vintage, big, warm kind of sound then a Borgani is the ticket.

[Dentarthurdent]

I played a whole bunch of Borg tenors last year at the Borg retailer in Oxford. For me the custom Z blew rings round all of them and was 40% cheaper - a no brainer. This goes to prove yet again that personal preference is key - the borgs just didn't give what I was after but are probably the best thing since sliced bread for the next player.

[Dr G]

kledbet,

What other horns do you own/play? I have a silver pearl Jubilee tenor as well but my main horn (due to my current playing demands) is a Ref 36.

[kledbet]

kledbet,

What other horns do you own/play? I have a silver pearl Jubilee tenor as well but my main horn (due to my current playing demands) is a Ref 36.

My saxes at this point in time are:
Yanagisawa 992 curved soprano
Rampone Cazzani Silver Saxello
1956 Mark VI Alto Sax
1949 Super Balanced Tenor
Borgani Pearl Silver Tenor

Like most of us I have probably had 30 horns in the past 12 years. The horns I have now just seem to get the job done and allow me to move into different styles of music.

[Dr G]

Thanks for the reply - looks like you and I might have similar taste in horns. I echo your perspective as well.

Welcome to SotW. I look forward to seeing you 'round.

[kledbet]

I was encouraged (bullied) by a pro who shall remain nameless to try a Borgani when I was in Amsterdam this summer. The silver-plated horn was nice, good projection/intonation, decent ergos, but the gold-plated horn was stuffy, and lacked a good feel. The shop (Amsterdam Winds) had just sold one to Ravi Coltrane, which the unnamed pro kept harping on like a mantra. He then asked one of the owners if they one I was trying had had their repad. It had not and he stressed what a difference that made. A repad? On a brand new horn? Are you bloody kidding me? For reference, I then tried a 99,xxx Mark VI. No comparison. The Borg was a toy. Moral of the story, try whatever nameplate you want, but there is a reason some horns have the rep they do.

Some horns also have reputations because for many years there was not a good choice among other sax makers. As I was growing up Selmer was the only name out there and if you wanted to play everyone played a Selmer. I for one always had good success with their alto, but never liked the low register of their tenors (I have owned 10, and most of them 5 digit). It has only been a relatively few years now that we have had some really good choices in the sax world. I could name the top 4 or 5 that we all know about, but this option was not the case lets say in years past. If Borgani or any other maker is going to establish a reputation as distinguished as Selmer it will take as many years to build, as it took the Mark VI to earn its famous reputation. The point is that we all can make choices now about how we want to sound and what works for us. As for me I have stopped chasing the Michael Brecker sound and horn, and have gone the other way, looking for a more rounded sound and a warmer approach. If Brecker is your goal than a Borgani is not a good choice, but if your target is Lovano, Marsalis, or others than it just might be that you don't need to be locked into getting a 5 digit Selmer. Last year I sold off my last 5 digit tenor and to be honest I don't miss it at all, and neither do the people I play with. Bottom line.... get the horn that you can best express whats inside of you, the name on the horn does not matter, only your ability to convey your heart through the horn..... and these days you have choices.

[kavala]

Well this thread is a surprise.:shock:
My first sax (too many years ago) was a Borgani Alto.
It was a heap of crap. (That's the polite SOTW description)
The only reason I got the Borgani was because it was the cheapest
available at that time.
Now, in the interveaning decades, Borgani must have sure upped their game
if I am to believe what I am reading here. :?

[kavala]

Maybe I should have kept that Borgani.
It might be a $5000 vintage sax by now. ;)

[kledbet]

The older Borgani saxes are a waste of time. The company is now in the hands of Orfeo Borgani who set out to make only the best of saxes. He consulted with pros like Joe Lovano and has made many modifications on the sax until now he has produced a wonderful horn. Even the saxes Borgani made 6 years ago don't compare with what they now produce. If you every get to play one make sure it is a Jubilee model, it will have a J in the serial number. As for your older Borgani, it might make a nice flower pot :-)

[Dentarthurdent]

I heard the same as Kledbet. Although Borgs don't do it for me I love their attitude - they are completely sold on trying to make the best saxes on the face of the planet - good luck to 'em.
I also heard the same about old Borgs - give them a wide berth (I can't say I've ever tried one though so I stand to be corrected).
I love the fact that modern sax players have such a wide choice of horns these days - the more manufacturers with this sort of uncompromising approach the better.
BTW keep a look out for the new Trevor James custom Signature horns. Until recently they have only been in the student market but their new pro horns are gonna be taking on the big boys!

[deblcooper]

I've run across (by repairs or by sales) a couple really good old Borganis.
Yes, they were Ponzol Borganis and they roared! (probably still do). One belonged to one of our customers who played with MezzoForte who ended up buying the Jubilee he loaned from us while the Ponzol was being repaired!

[kledbet]

I've run across (by repairs or by sales) a couple really good old Borganis.
Yes, they were Ponzol Borganis and they roared! (probably still do). One belonged to one of our customers who played with MezzoForte who ended up buying the Jubilee he loaned from us while the Ponzol was being repaired!

This is true, the Ponzol Borganis are very good horns. They are 1 or 2 steps back from where Borgani is today, and miles ahead of where Borgani was 10 years ago. Most players would probably like these saxes.

[kledbet]

If I had one thing to say about what Borgani could do to improve the horn it would be to strengthen the rods and palm keys. They are a bit flimsy compared to a Mark VI or other sax. I had Borgani make me up a new set of stronger palm keys, but in general all the side keys and rods could be stonger. It has not yet caused a problem but if they are out to build a world class horn then this area should be addressed.

[j44breaker]

Great thread all. Just wondering, how do you think Borgani horns would do in a classical setting?

Thanks in advance...

[kledbet]

Great thread all. Just wondering, how do you think Borgani horns would do in a classical setting?

Thanks in advance...

I think very well!!! The sound is focused but not edgy. It has a big round sound and its nice to have a new horn with better ergonomics rather than having to try to play an old Buecher or Conn. If you can afford it go for it.
Kevin

[Dr G]

"Focused"... "big, round sound"...

I felt that my Jubilee was more on the "big, round" end of the spectrum rather than "focused" - even further away from "focused" than my Ref 36. And that's why I use the Ref 36 for my classical quartet and sold the Jubilee. Sure, they compare favorably with an older Buescher or Conn - I think that was very much their intent - but I don't hear Buescher or Conn in my head when I play legit. FWIW, our whole quartet plays Selmer - SA80 (aka Serie I) sop, Mk VI altos, Ref 36 tenor, Mk VI bari. I say plural "altos" because we play both American (AATB) and French (SATB) rep.

[jazznswing]

Hi Everyone, I played a borgani Tenor in Roberto's shop last year and it was so amazing, as easy as breathing, I was blown away. I play a Buescher Tenor top hat and cane for about 17 years with a Sugal Super Gonz II mouthpiece.

I waited a year because of course of the price. I traveled to italy in the summer and me an my closest friend drove to Mercerata to the borgani plant. I was there for 3.5 hours blowing on all the different horns and ended up walking out with a completely silver Tenor. This horn is not only awesome but it has bright focused "WARM" Tone. My band is amazed at it's tone and clarity and it is always in tune. I literally just put the mouthpiece on and it's in tune. Makes me laugh all the time.

I have to say what is annoying is other horn player's ignorance regarding borgani horns. Players keep saying that the horn's parts are made in China and then the horn is assembled in Italy. I told Orfeo of what people were saying about this horn and he was offended (italians are proud). He was so amazing and patient. He actually opened the shop so that I could pick out a horn. (italians close shop in the summer)

The shop Is small about the size of Roberto's shop and the rehersal space attached. We walked through where they made the instruments. He had pictures of all the great players From Brecker to Lavano to Lieberman to Jerry Mulligan Etc.

This horn plays like an ANGEL. It is a little pricy, but, for the price of a vintage Mach VI that roberto's selling for 8,000 you can buy a soprano or an alto to boot.

Enjoy !! I have pics of his place if you're interested

[BayviewSax]

Some horns also have reputations because for many years there was not a good choice <snip>

The point is that we all can make choices now about how we want to sound and what works for us. As for me I have stopped chasing the Michael Brecker sound and horn, and have gone the other way, looking for a more rounded sound and a warmer approach. If Brecker is your goal than a Borgani is not a good choice, but if your target is Lovano, Marsalis, or others than it just might be that you don't need to be locked into getting a 5 digit Selmer. <snip> Bottom line.... get the horn that you can best express whats inside of you, the name on the horn does not matter, only your ability to convey your heart through the horn..... and these days you have choices.

I agree with your final point almost entirely. However, I really think 99.5% of that "sound" comes from the player. I was in Les Arbuckle's shop and heard him play a Mark VI (180xxx?), a silver-plated 10M, and my SerieIII side-by-side. He sounded like Les on all three. The Selmers were a tad more focused, the 10M a tad rounder, but all were unmistakably Les Arbuckle. He told me Bergonzi plays a bunch of different horns, sounds the same on all of them. More than the horn itself affecting the tone would be the combination of the horn and the mouthpiece. The silver-plated Borg I tried was nice, the gold-plate was clunky (tried them with a Link 8*, ZZ3). I liked the Borg silver, but didn't love it. Then I played the VI. Everything the Borg did, the VI did better (for me). I guess my reaction was to the sales pitch as much as the horn, but I do think they are grossly overpriced. If you really want that vintage sound, picking up a 10M and getting it setup properly is a more financially viable option.

[Saxaholic]

I visited Roberto's shop a week or so ago and tried all the Borgani alto's he had. Including the sterling silver Jubilee model. I tried them all with different mouthpieces and differnet strength reeds, to make sure it was a fair test.

The Jubilee model had a bright, powerful sound, but not something that was very pleasing to my ears. The other horns had darker sounds than the Jubilee but I was not very impressed. The keywork felt "big" and kind of clunky compared to my Reference 54. Sound-wise, they weren't anything that special. They had a nice tone...but it didn't really ring or pop at all. Both my Reference 54 and the Conn 6M VIII I own beat the pants off of each and every Borgani in there. The two other sax players I were with agreed with me. Overall, I was not impressed. The Borgani felt kind of...I dunno...cheap to hold. Felt like a Taiwan horn.

Just my .02 cents. Your mileage may vary.

Saxaholic

[TenTenTooter]

http://www.shwoodwind.co.uk/Reviews/Saxes/Tenor/Borgani_PearlGold_tenor.htm

There are two Borg' Tenor sax reviews there.

[Dr G]

I visited Roberto's shop a week or so ago and tried all the Borgani alto's he had. Including the sterling silver Jubilee model...

The Jubilee model had a bright, powerful sound, but not something that was very pleasing to my ears. The other horns had darker sounds than the Jubilee but I was not very impressed...

The Borgani felt kind of...I dunno...cheap to hold. Felt like a Taiwan horn...

Saxaholic

Saxaholic,

It is unclear to me what horns you played. Were they all Jubilee models or was only one a Jubilee? Your last statement certainly does not reflect any of the sense that I had of my silver pearl Jubilee tenor. It always reminded me more of my custom .45 ACP target pistol - everything fit just right.

Within the Jubilee series there are many finish options - silver plate, gold plate, silver pearl, bare brass, etc. Borgani horns that are not of the Jubilee series have seldom been held in high regard but many players think very highly of the Jubilee models.

[William Bua]

Hello jazznswing,
I just bought a borgani on ebay, item 7386113826. I don't know if its a jubilee model because the sellers info was awful. It looks like a jubilee that is sold by saxophoneheaven in the UK. Could you hip me on what I just bought. I figure since you not only play borgs, you went to the factory, You might know. Thank you in advance, Bill

[William Bua]

Hello Borgani guys,
I just bought a Borgani on ebay item 7386113826. Could any of you tell me which model it is? I know its a modern borg. The closest match I could find visually is at saxophoneheaven in the UK. The black nickel finish is exclusive to saxophoneheaven from what I understand. If its a Jubilee, I hope one of you guys dont assassinate me for what I paid for the horn. Anyway, please help. Bill

[brassnaked]

Hello Borgani guys,
I just bought a Borgani on ebay item 7386113826. Could any of you tell me which model it is? I know its a modern borg. The closest match I could find visually is at saxophoneheaven in the UK. The black nickel finish is exclusive to saxophoneheaven from what I understand. If its a Jubilee, I hope one of you guys dont assassinate me for what I paid for the horn. Anyway, please help. Bill
Does it have a "J" stamped DEEP into the brass as part of it's serial number?
If it does, it is a Jubilee era horn, if not, chances are that it is not...however, there have been some transition era horns that do not not have the "J" but not many at all.

[Dr G]

Classic - they call it an alto and it is a tenor... Maybe.

Anyhow, my tenor Jubilee ( and all tenor Jubilees) have double arms on the lower keys and this one does not. I'm not even sure that it was made by Borgani since there is no picture of the engraving on the bell. Of all the Jubilee finish variations, I do not recall black nickel among them - bare brass, silver plate, silver pearl, gold plate, gold pearl.

And if it is a Jubilee for that price, I wish you all the best. The Jubilee is a great horn.

[AlistairD]

All,

A really interesting thread. In the next 12-18 months I am likely to upgrade my tenor and the Borgani's are of definite interest to me. I've heard that they are very easy to play and have a "unique" tone. This thread seems to back up what I had heard elsewhere and it seems to be a matter of opinion as to whether their "uniqueness" is great or cr@p.... as with most things.

I'll let you know if I decide on a Borgani.

PS. If there is anyone in the UK (or Europe) who has a modern Borgani Tenor that they don't want then I might be interested at some point....

[Dr G]

If/when you do go shopping make sure that if you are paying for a Jubilee that you are confident that you are getting a Jubilee. I believe there are still other models made that are not of Jubilee quality.

[AlistairD]

Dr G.

Thanks, will do... My first point of call is likely to be Allegro's in Oxford, who are the main (only?) Borgani agents in the UK...

[Dr G]

For what it's worth, here is a snippet of the reply I received from the person that bought my silver pearl Jubilee tenor:

"First impressions: Love the sound! It's immediate and powerful. I love the sculpted bis key. It's smooth. The LH palm keys seems closer together than my mark vi, which would take a little getting used to, but no big deal. I was expecting it to be darker for some reason. It's more free blowing than the other borgani that I tried at robertos. I like that. It doesn't seem to like the metal links that I play, but it loves the Lamberson L7 wood piece and my ackerman resin link copy. I guess it's more of a hard rubber beast."

I, too, found it to favor the Lamberson HR 'pieces - J8 and L7. "Immediate and powerful" are excellent adjectives for the Borg'.

My Borg' did benefit from having the neck tenon optimized. I took the horn apart myself to polish and lubricate all the bearing surfaces as well as to apply Runyon Pad Dope. Wonderful, wonderful horn. It's already head-to-head with my Selmer Balanced Action at the top of the Horns-That-I-Will-Miss list.

[makemyday]

I think it's with these Italian horns the same as with Italian cars: they can be really classics, but are not always reliable. I juist came from a jamsession where a guy's silver Borgani, with engravings all over it etc, FELL APART - I mean there were parts of his horn lying on the floor after we finished playing! I was jealous at the guy when he bought the horn only six or eight months ago, but now....

[Mango Birkie]

I have made exactly the same comparison. Though my Jubilee tenor has shown no signs of falling apart, it is more maintenance intensive than some other horns. You may have to carry a tool kit in the back, but what a ride!

[deblcooper]

I do not recall black nickel among them

- sorry for coming into this late -

Borgani has always had the black nickel option for the Jubilee model, on special request.

deb

[Hornless :(]

Borgani came out with a new model/make:

http://www.monteverdemusic.com/pmauriat/system76.html

Did a GIS and found nadda... *grrs*

Anyone have any pics yet?

[usda]

"but decided I'd rather get another "brace" of Martin's for the same money."

Just to get it straight...Its a 'BRACE' of saxes, not a 'covey' or 'pod' or 'pride'...I like that! :)

Or is it just Martin's that go by BRACE...and I can have a 'pod' of Bundys, or a 'covey' of Schelmars? Or a 'Borg' of Borgs?:(

[William Bua]

Hello brassnaked,
The horn was delivered and it did not have the J. Oh well. It is on ebay right now after being cleaned up and brought back to playing condition. If you Borgani guys want it, check the bay. Thanks for the info, Bill

[Canadiain]

Hello brassnaked,
The horn was delivered and it did not have the J. Oh well. It is on ebay right now after being cleaned up and brought back to playing condition. If you Borgani guys want it, check the bay. Thanks for the info, Bill

I see you set up the sale to get the "halo effect" of the new borgs anyway:)

So although not a jubilee, what was your playing impression of this horn?



Surely "collective" is the correct plural for borgs:razz:

[MarchingBear]

I've had my Borgani (sterling silver) alto and tenor for several years and I haven't played a new horn that I like as much as these. I did enjoy a Ref 36 tenor though...
Yes they are expensive, but they seem to be that much better than anything else I've seen.
I haven't tried Rampone & Cazzani altos or tenors yet.

[jazaddict]

I'm lookin forward to gettin my Lovano tenor on Wed. I'm a Ref54 guy & happy there, but I've been "jonesin' " for an alternative ever since I played a Yanni 9937. It sounded fine, but too much like my Ref. It was SO pretty though.....

So when I discovered the Lovano (same metal/color layout) and read about the unique, vintage quality, and I played a more vintage-sounding horn, I thought this would be a nice companion to the "Selmer sound".

Wringin my hands & pacing in anticipation!

I'll be SORELY pissed if I hate it after all that bread (YIKES! $$$$$$$ :dazed: )

[AlistairD]

I'm lookin forward to gettin my Lovano tenor on Wed. I'm a Ref54 guy & happy there, but I've been "jonesin' " for an alternative ever since I played a Yanni 9937. It sounded fine, but too much like my Ref. It was SO pretty though.....

So when I discovered the Lovano (same metal/color layout) and read about the unique, vintage quality, and I played a more vintage-sounding horn, I thought this would be a nice companion to the "Selmer sound".

Wringin my hands & pacing in anticipation!

I'll be SORELY pissed if I hate it after all that bread (YIKES! $$$$$$$ :dazed: )

I'm sure you'll be happy, I played about 10 different Borgani Jubilee Tenors before settling on a Ref 36, but the Borgani's were all different and all interesting.

Good luck and let us know how you get on...

[rogerb40uk]

Browsing on the SaxophoneHeaven site (Allegro Music, Oxford, England), I find:

Tenor: NEW MODEL BORGANI VINTAGE Mk2. UNLACQUERED BRUSHED FINISH. 100% HANDCRAFTED. Join Joe Lovano,Tim Garland, Art Themen,David Sanchez,Branford Marsalis etc. To achieve THE UNIQUE SOUND. BEST IN WORLD.

Ato: NEW BORGANI "130" Solid sterling silver crook and bell Todays King "Silversonic" Limited edition Only one in UK STOP PRESS BRANFORD MARSALIS JUST TAKEN DELIVERY OF HIS JAN 2004.

NEW BORGANI Silver Pearlised Exclusive handcrafted FABULOUS. Very similar to 24K Gold Pearlised model but with slightly more projecting SOUND.STOP PRESS DAVID SANCHEZ TO USE THIS MODEL IN 2004

I put this up for what it is worth. I do not have a Borgani, although I owned an older student moodel soprano for a short while that I was not enamoured with. The bandwagon is interesting, but I am not ready for it yet.

I went into this shop last week and took an immediate dislike to the proprietor, for the following reasons:
1. When I said I have a Hanson, he said "Oh, my God!", and in reply to my "Have you ever played one?", "I don't *need* to!"
2. When he asked what mpc I use and I replied "Lamberson 6M" he said "Never heard of 'em!" ..."How much do they cost?..."Highway robbery!"
3. He had BO :(

However, he did let me try his top-line altos, incl several 'Borjanis' (as he insists Orfeo Borgani pronounces it!).

I found them all very difficult to blow (couldn't get any low-register sound from the bare-brass model) which of course was 'my fault' according to said proprietor :o

Interesting when I could blow the Ref 54 and Yani 901 with no problems at all!!

It was interesting and fun to havva blow of some high-priced metal, and I did learn that Vandoren Javas suit me better than Rico Stds!!

[Dan Molloy]

I went into this shop last week and took an immediate dislike to the proprietor, for the following reasons:
1. When I said I have a Hanson, he said "Oh, my God!", and in reply to my "Have you ever played one?", "I don't *need* to!"
2. When he asked what mpc I use and I replied "Lamberson 6M" he said "Never heard of 'em!" ..."How much do they cost?..."Highway robbery!"
3. He had BO :(

However, he did let me try his top-line altos, incl several 'Borjanis' (as he insists Orfeo Borgani pronounces it!).

I found them all very difficult to blow (couldn't get any low-register sound from the bare-brass model) which of course was 'my fault' according to said proprietor :o

Interesting when I could blow the Ref 54 and Yani 901 with no problems at all!!

It was interesting and fun to havva blow of some high-priced metal, and I did learn that Vandoren Javas suit me better than Rico Stds!!

What a wanchair. As Orfeo might say:D

[jazznswing]

Hey Dan,

I actually purchased a Silver Tenor Borgani last year. When I was in Italy I drove to Orfeo's plant and actually played 6 different tenors. From the pearls to the golds. I was there for 3.5 hours and Orfeo opened the shop for me because he closes in the summer.

Most of the horns felt really funny at first. The pearls had a really weird resistance because of the finish. I liked some of the sounds but the silver was easier to blow on and the sound was amazing.

Don't let a smelly, arrogant proprietor bumb you out. You also don't know how the horns traveled and if he did any work on them when they arrived. My horn need a little tweeking for about 6 months till the pads set and the Horn just opened up.

Overall the Horn kicks *** except for the lower Bb stack. It's hard to go from the low C to the C# or C# to B. The pads stick alot but thats with any new horn with new pads.

Also, not all horns are for eveyone. I know killer players who love the Cannonball, I don't like em.

Good luck !!!!

Steve

[Tryptykon]

I still love my pearl silver tenor - it sounds like nothing else I've played. .

[knightofcoins]

My saxes at this point in time are:
Yanagisawa 992 curved soprano
Rampone Cazzani Silver Saxello
1956 Mark VI Alto Sax
1949 Super Balanced Tenor
Borgani Pearl Silver Tenor



Kledbet I hate you! You have EXACTLY the horns I want!!! What's your address?

I'm currently playing a 1927 conn alto and am musing over a RC vs Yani vs Borg, curved vs saxello vs straight purchase...

Or all of them ;)

(Hang on thats 9 saxes!...)

[ChuBerry47]

What model Borgani does Lovano play? Are the gold keys standard on his?

[MarchingBear]

Hey, I have played the curved yanagisawa, borgani, and Rampone sopranos and my preference was for the R1 Jazz Rampone $ Cazanni. I owned one briefly and then it was stolen.
The borgani had problems with the design of the left hand pinky keys in my opinion. It was uncomfortable for me, and I have big hands. It was just hard to press them.
The Yanagisawa was very sweet but lacked the power and character of the Rampone.
Contact Matt at Saxforte, he is one of the most helpful guys I ever talked to about saxes. He guided me to a perfect purchase, if short lived because of the theft.

saxforte.com

PS. the case the Rampone comes with is so cool too!

[ChuBerry47]

Baritones: Yanagisawa B992 with Gloger neck, Selmer SA80 Serie II with Gloger neck, RPC mouthpieces.
Tenors: Silver Borgani Jubilee with Gloger neck, silver Selmer SA80 Serie II with Bosken neck. RPC pieces.
Altos: Silver Borgani Jubilee, Selmer SA80 Serie II with Gloger neck. RPC pieces.
Sopranos: Silver curved Rampone & Cazzani R1 Jazz with gold engraved bell, Selmer SA80 Serie II. Springer & Vandoren V16 S7 pieces.
Bass Clarinet: Selmer Paris with Gloger neck tenon. Grabner pieces.
Alto Clarinets: Two Leblanc 300s, Selmer Paris. Grabner pieces.
Soprano Clarinets: Buffet R13 w/ Grabner barrel, Selmer USA. Grabner pieces.
Wow!

Do you have enough saxophones? Why not let me borrow a couple for next months gig.

[MarchingBear]

Well, I have one set in NY and one set here in Venezuela. That's why there are so many. But I love each and every one of them, differently...

[ChuBerry47]

:( Nobody can afford them :!:


@ $3500 on pmwoodwind.com , I would rather buy a Borgani than a Selmer.

[Tryptykon]

What model Borgani does Lovano play?

Are the gold keys standard on his?

1.Joe Lovano model.

2.Yes.

[heathdwatts]

I bought a straight silver (not pearl) soprano about two months ago. I found it for $1800 used online. It is an amazing saxophone! I took it to sax tech wizard Mike Hammer in Philadelphia, and he checked it out. No problems! I didn't think I'd ever be able to afford one. I played a Keilwerth SX90 BG previously, but now my Keilwerth is gathering dust. I have been playing my Keilwerth for several years and thought the adjustment would be difficult, but the Borgani feels much more natural than my Keilwerth. I love the sax and probably would save money to buy one for $5200, if I hadn't found a used one.

[blairman]

i have a borani straight soprano, from 60's maybe. ser # 11xxx. is this from when they were not so good horns? there is one on ebay right now, item # 130146591133. it is ser # 12xxx . anybody have any info or insights on this horn?
blairman

[jazznswing]

Hey Blairman. Like all older horns, Technique is key in the process of manufacturing. Horns are just made better now. I have a top hat and cane Beushcer Tenor and I love to play it time to time and have had it for 18 years. But The newer horns just blow the doors off the old stuff. They are in tune, (seldom do I have to tune my Borgani, I just put my mouthpiece on and 90% of the time it's ready to go.)

The older Borgani's are nice but they have the same problems as the older horns. They are hard to keep in tune and the mechanics of the horn aren't as key as the what you can buy today. I've played a cannonball that blew the doors off my Buescher.

Stephen

[ilikejam]

I play an unlacqured Borgani tenor,it is a lovely saxophone.The action is under my fingers and fast and the tone very alive but warm and very responsive.The horn is not quite as powerfull as a new Keilworth or Selmer series 111,but the action and tone quality are vastly superior.You can pick these horns up used at a bargin price...beautiful saxophones.

[Dr G]

I don't know about "bargain prices" - at least, not in the U.S.

"Not as powerful as..." - I'll take you to task with that statement as I find my Jubilee as powerful as need be (and I have previously owned and played a III and Ref 36).

Regardless, welcome to SotW! ;)

[jazznswing]

Hey I like Jam,

This is like comparing apples to oranges. 20 Years ago when I bought my Buecher Top Hat & Cane,
I played it against a Selmer VI and a Super King 20, it was clearly the horn for me AT THE TIME.

First, when making any kind of purchase this large, you should also make the investment of time.
If you just like to go into Robertos and try horns until you find one, that's cool. But If you know which horn you really like, and can afford it, go directly to the plant or direct Reseller and try 6 or 7 of the SAME model. Originally when I was in the market for a Keilworth I played 4 side by side and they ALL Sounded different. When I bought my Borgani I flew to Milano to visit my friend and made a trip to Mercerata (sp) where the borgani plant is. I played 6 Horns. I played everyone made and I was there for 3 hours. It was an incredible experience and Still this horn is awesome.

So, with all that said, SOUND or Tone is something that is unique to everyone unless you want to become a Sanborn Clone. From the Bone structure of your head to the weight of your body, to the mouthpiece and reed manufacturer and hardness, it's endless as to who and how you are making the sound. This is why it takes YEARS to develop your perfect sound.

I will say this, If you ever seriously want a Borgani, and the price of travel drops, I guarantee that you will pay a lot less going to the plan than you will at Robertos !
PS. Pay in Cash/Euros.

SR:D

[cuthbert]

Borgani...interesting horn.

A pity that it's impossible to procure in Italy! :(

[Dr G]

It is not "impossible to procure in Italy" - several SotW members have written of their experiences to visit the factory, play test horns in the showroom, and purchase their choice(s).

[cuthbert]

It is not "impossible to procure in Italy" - several SotW members have written of their experiences to visit the factory, play test horns in the showroom, and purchase their choice(s).

Man, I mean in the shops.

The clerks don't even know what are the Borganis, about the R&C I'm aware that there are some shops, but we are talking about three places on the entire country.

If you notice, Borgani doesn't even have a website in italian,I understand that they are small and happy how they are, but some advertizement wouldn't hurt, and STILL the teachers consider them very bad horns. See the other thread about it...

[Dr G]

STILL the teachers consider them very bad horns. See the other thread about it...

Yes, I know that thread. It reflects a long history of mediocre horns - quite distinct from what the Jubilee series delivers. That some teachers don't know that is not a surprise. I'm guessing that Borgani is selling as many horns as they need to without trying to impress the world with a marketing campaign.


:borg: