Boring myself with Simple Blues Shuffles I, IV, V

[Keith Ridenhour]

This weekend I did the friday and sat night gig thing and I'm having a harder and harder time banging out the 10 blues shuffles that we do during the course of a gig. Most of them are kind of like Chicken Shack tempo wise and basic I, IV, V changes. Some with vocals and some plain instrumentals. I usually state an idea in the middle part of the horn, then answer it or elaborate it, make the I7 change to the four chord. Make the V, VI change and then go into a higher part of the horn or build intensity with faster licks for chorus 2 , 3 and sometimes 4. The band knows when I'm bored because chorus 2 goes into the alt and screams some stupid note and I'm done and out at the end of 2. My problem is that most of what I do is either copied from guitar licks /phrasing (especially blues phrasing) or some big band stuff I did many moons ago. I use the mixolydian scales mostly with some blues scale thrown in. I mentioned this stuff to a friend who also gigs alot and plays shuffles and he told me to throw in some diminished stuff on the dominent chords and some 4ths. In other words take some risks. I can bang through this stuff and get applause and keep the time/pulse happening but it is getting less and less satisfying and I feel that I'm not expressing myself as much as following a roadmap for 3 choruses. Any suggestions. (PS I have the Blues Saxophone book and that is helpful but I'm already playing lots of mixolydian and minor pentatonic stuff. ) K

[Frank D]

Is there somebody in the band to trade 4s with, maybe start pushing each other?

[gary]

Is there somebody in the band to trade 4s with, maybe start pushing each other?Excellent suggestion. Our trumpeter isn't much of an improvisor but on two tunes he and the bone player (who plays his a** off) trade fours and suddenly the trumpeter plays some very exciting stuff on these tunes.

Keith, are you playing R&B or in a swing band? My comments pertainto R&B:

You didn't mention the Pentatonic scale, which, if you're not using, you might want to add to your arsenal. I think a challenge here is how do you keep yourself interested but not go too far out for the audience. I play in a R&B band and am from a jazz background and, while i know King Curtis and many other great R&B players were also bebop players, I've go t to control my jazz tendencies. What I've been doing is to try for more exciting rhythmic solos. Rhythmically, I've been trying to copy phrasing from King Curtis and expecially Maceo Parker.

[Keith Ridenhour]

The guitarist is a good soloist and it would be fun to trade 4s with him. I've got the "funk" type stuff nailed and I enjoy that . I'll take it out with pentatonics, symetric chromatic licks etc. What I have a problem with is the crap I play on Ain't nobody here but us chickens, and various other "swing " blues. On some tunes we almost have a routine like on Chickens I'll mess around in the mid range, go up to the palms third chorus, play In the Mood 4th chorus (dancers love that) then stay around D 4 fourth chorus ending up on alt B5 (my B blues.) Thats fine for a tune once in awhile but we do alot of other shuffles and if I don't do that I'm kind of lost. You can have my husband, med tempo A blues (my key), Suger Coated Love same groove, D blues, and I really hate Sexy Ways and chunka , chunka groove in F# where I'll usually quote the sax solo from the Wanderer in my first chorus and then end up on alt F# 4. I can do a strong solo, but I feel like a trained monkey and what I'm doing is def not "improvising" but coloring about the same picture time after time. I have good command of the alt register and that kind of makes up for having less technique than alot of guys I hear. Ironically, I never listen to this kind of music (theres a concept) and really enjoy hearing a singer or horn play a nicely done phrase in a slow tune. Anyway, suggestions are welcome, I've learned alot from you guys on this forum the last couple of years> K

[Jazzed]

K,

I've been there so many times. I TOTALLY know what you're feeling.

I was recently let go from a 3-5x per week gigging 1-4-5 act for 'playing outside the genre'.... which I've come to accept as a compliment (except to my wallet) to my musicality. The band leader was always telling me to extend my solos, but after so many tunes that shared the same chord progression, often in the same keys, I lost any motivation to keep playing inside, especailly after doing it for over a year with this act. I brought in charts, guitar tabs and CDs of related tunes that had different changes (Harlem Nocturne, Mr. Magic, Chameleon...), but due to musical ineptness, laziness or what I don't know... my suggestions to go outside the 1-4-5 box were ignored.

Add on to this the absurd excessive volume levels and that my suggestions to turn amplifiers down and not mic drums were perceived as insults to the macho-ness of the band... it was time to go for me. After the last gig I played with these guys I was really thinking about bailing out, so when I got the call a couple of days later I was actually relieved that it was over.

I think the only REAL answer is to seek out other opportunities with different musicians that can ACTUALLY play other changes. But you probably are already feeling that inside, right? I know I was... now I am making it happen (I was already doing it on the side before) and am much happier musically.

[sax_appeal]

Why don't you write (or find) some different music that you like? Otherwise, I would suggest that you do take risks and play your solos so that you enjoy them, if you like them chances are the audience will too.

[Keith Ridenhour]

I have to admit I've gotten lazy. I've gigged steadily with this band for the last 4 years and for a bunch of guys with day gigs we work alot. Before this band I was playing in 4 different bands from a rockabilly band to a nice jazz quintet and my skill level was alot higher just from playhng more challanging music. In all honesty I probabaly won't leave these guys. I've heard lots of other bands around here and we are in the top 15% of whats going on in the clubs (thats not saying alot though) so I have heard nobody that I'd want to play with more. I've conjectured that if I got fired/quit I'd go back to doing more teaching and take more lessons myself. But I would like to take my playing in this situation to a higher level. I get compliments (like last saturday nite) that I am a "great sax player" which I translate internerally to I blow my brains out on a gig and make up for skill level with sheer sweat and grunt. My goal in this post is that I'd like to actually be proud of what I play on these swing/shuffles . I minidisk myself all the time and have a library of minidisks over the last few years for me to check out in my "golden years " approaching. But for right now my tone is finally coming together and my health problems are leaving so I can actually put in an hour or 90 minute practice session and get something accomplished rather than just maintain chops. Jazzed, you crack me up. I took a lesson from a very good player Alex Murzyn a few weeks ago and started focusing on the upper extension color tones of a chord and the band guys actually asked me to play the solo more "bluesy". In other words don't hang on the 13, go for the flat 5 and milk the b3, etc. That cracked me up. I wondered where I'd use the info from two 60 dollar lessons I had taken from him. I have an agenda of things I want to improve. I was hoping that maybe others had a different approach than I do to all this. I was talking to a friend last thursday about all this and asked him what he'd do with the A section of God Bless The child. ( I sound like someone who can almost play be bop on that). He played something beatifull that was simple and focused more on just a major pentatonic scale of the parent key. I asked him what the heck he was doing and he said that he just "rolls the dice" and plays what he hears. It was very nice but I tryed that last sat night and unfortuntely I didn't get the same result. I seem to function best with some mental "pre writing " of what I'm going to do on the solo but I'd like a better result. Off to work, thanks guys. K

[steve]

Things were getting a bit boring for me in our 5 piece blues band...until we expanded to 6 by adding a trumpet. Working with another horn is enjoyable and gives us both the opportunity to come up with some interesting stuff...harmonies/riffs/trading 4's...etc. Maybe adding another sax, a trombone or trumpet would fire things up a bit?
I am fortunate...the other musicians in our band have interests and talents other then I, IV, V shuffles ( I don't think we do any...which is a bit strange for a Chicago based band)...there is a lot of blues music with different changes and tempos. You may want to listen to, for example, more complex blues music...eg., Popa Chubby...Roomful of Blues... Big Twist...etc. to get some fresh ideas.

[Bill Mecca]

. Ironically, I never listen to this kind of music (theres a concept) K

Keith,

I think you answered your own question there. It sounds to me like you are just running out of ideas to play over those tunes. (take it from one of limited vocabulary) start listening to more of this type stuff and ideas will come to you either by osmosis :-) or actual study.

plug it in, in the truck and let the ideas develop. then you'll be all that and a bag of chips. ;-)

Just last night, I played along with some old Jr. Walker stuff (a bit off topic here but) and realized how simple some of his stuff was, and yet very tasty, hopefully some of that will show up in my playing.

[Smokin' Joe]

Keith....you're really being hard on yourself. I do know exactly how you feel though. To battle the "trained monkey" feeling, you have to excerise the creative side of your brain. You probably feel like you're just going through the motions on every tune of every gig you play.

I've been in the Blues Bros show at Universal Studios for 9 years and have played literally over 9000 yes that's nine thousand shows during this time. You know as well as I that your average audience, especially a THEME PARK audience is going to be, for the most part, musically illiterate. All I play out there is pentatonics and blues scales because I know that that's all they can understand. I do enjoy my job immensely, but if I'm not excercising my creative brain, sometimes I get really depressed and wonder why I ever chose this career in the first place.

I bought ACID, the loop based music production software and started jamming to grooves which I can create in a matter of seconds. It really helped. If you're fortunate enough to have a college around you that offers a music major, maybe visit and ask some students if they'd like to play some experimental avant guard jazz one day a week to explore the inner creative process. Getting lost in a musical piece with other musicians is very theraputic process. You need to blow long mind wandering solos until you are musically satisfied and dripping with sweat from the hours of the creative thought process you are experiencing as a group. It will be extremely rewarding for you. I did this in college with a group of friends playing from 7-8 pm until the sun came up for weeks on end. Time passes so quickly and you really won't know how you could have been playing for 8-10 hours. I call it the sax drug. I know it sounds a little weird, maybe even a little extreme, but you have to explore that which turned you on to music in the first place. Let me know how it goes.

[CashSax]

Hi Keith, glad to hear you're still in business..I know how hard it is to create excitement over the same old blues changes when working with a group that is kinda stuck in the same old musical rut. I could only say stretch yourself by getting out and jamming with everybody you can possibly find..don't concentrate too much on the mechanics and let your soul do the talking..remember we're supposed to be making music, not analytical analysis. Hence such great beauty can come from tonal simplicity and solid meaningful tone. In the recent mos I've played with many, many different groups and backed a dozen different vocalists. Often I'm called to solo on a tune I'm not familiar with or a chestnut in a weird key. Unless I'm playing something that requires a jillion frantic notes I try to keep it simple tasty and pretty..As far as the blues go it's really up to the group to send me into overdrive..but above all..have FUN..

[Keith Ridenhour]

Cash, let me know when you get the Cash Ferrar and his C Notes review together. My wife and I'll will fly to vegas to check you out. You know Jami's band. Good vocals, long guitar solos and drummer too loud. I am putting out feelers to jam but what I hear out there is alot worse than what I'm with now. K

[hershel]

wise post, CashSax. I'll be reminding myself of this the next time I find myself playing the same ol' same ol';

"..don't concentrate too much on the mechanics and let your soul do the talking.."

[CashSax]

Hey K, I'll be glad to see you. I am beginning to work on my own projects here in Vegas..there's certainly plenty of venues ..I just hope I can get them to spell my name right..luv ya man

Cash Farrar 8)