searching for a flute

[Berko]

hey guys
i am searching flute for to start to play
but i dont know if to buy a open holes or a close holes ?
a orginal silver or a silver laq ?
to buy a pro flute or a student flute?

what do you recomend for the start to buy a life-time flute ?
or to buy a flute for 3 years and get to the next level ?

waiting for your comments

cheers shai.

[Gordon (NZ)]

Start on a really reliable, excellent-toned, responsive student flute. Yamaha is its name. Model is 200 series.

You are not in a position to make a wise personal choice for a lifetime flute until you have become quite a good player. Choice is extremely personal. And flutes are seldom for-life choices, even though people may think they are at the time.

Choosing a high level, lifetime flute as a beginner is a bit like choosing a lifetime suit when you are 13 years old.

Definitely closed hole. There simply is no reason for an open hole unless you are are an advanced player into non-traditional effects on the flute. It is a myth that open hole flutes inherently play better. On the other hand, hey can present a range of problems.

I know of no decent flutes that have a lacquered surface. Almost every decent student flute is silver plated. It is also a (marketing) myth that the metal choice makes a significant difference to a flute. The biggest difference is in the design of the head. The design of the student Yamaha head is great for a beginner and for probably quite a few years, unless you make exceptional progress.

Listen to a Yamaha student flute, silver plated with closed holes by going to Utube and finding flute recordings by "Pyrioni", bearing in mind that he is only 14 years old.

[SopAlto1]

Vintage Haynes commercial closed hole!!

There have been a few really nice looking ones lately, on eBay & they all have been going under $1500.

These are really a deal, now & any sax player would enjoy owning one.

[Berko]

Start on a really reliable, excellent-toned, responsive student flute. Yamaha is its name. Model is 200 series.

You are not in a position to make a wise personal choice for a lifetime flute until you have become quite a good player. Choice is extremely personal. And flutes are seldom for-life choices, even though people may think they are at the time.

Choosing a high level, lifetime flute as a beginner is a bit like choosing a lifetime suit when you are 13 years old.

Definitely closed hole. There simply is no reason for an open hole unless you are are an advanced player into non-traditional effects on the flute. It is a myth that open hole flutes inherently play better. On the other hand, hey can present a range of problems.

I know of no decent flutes that have a lacquered surface. Almost every decent student flute is silver plated. It is also a (marketing) myth that the metal choice makes a significant difference to a flute. The biggest difference is in the design of the head. The design of the student Yamaha head is great for a beginner and for probably quite a few years, unless you make exceptional progress.

Listen to a Yamaha student flute, silver plated with closed holes by going to Utube and finding flute recordings by "Pyrioni", bearing in mind that he is only 14 years old.


thanks a lot . now i listening to pyrioni and i most to say he is good flutist and not only at the young league ;pyrioni he have warm and clean sound like i love at the flute
i think the yamaha 211 thats a great flute for the beging and thats a great flute for advance lever

[Benny]

Vintage Haynes commercial closed hole!!

There have been a few really nice looking ones lately, on eBay & they all have been going under $1500.

These are really a deal, now & any sax player would enjoy owning one.

dido that.

But, you've got to find a teacher (and a repairman) who appreciates what these flutes can do.
There are varying thoughts on what is the best 'era' for these flutes, but plenty on stores have them second hand. See if you can get on sent to you on trial.
ie: http://flutes4sale.com/haynes_18874.html

[Gordon (NZ)]

For me, the old Haynes, handmade flute - "vintage"? - that I learnt on is quite disappointing compared with a current student Yamaha. Expectations of the head have changed a lot in that time. I suppose it may be OK for small-room chamber music.

[BOPITY FUNK]

+1 Yamaha 200/300 series. Very hard to beat. Some good ones on e-bay(-not that i'm a great fan of e-bay )
Bopity

[kymarto]

Disagree with Gordon--a classic Boston-cut head can sound just as good (or better) than a modern head and be just as loud. It is all a question of embouchure, although modern heads do tend to be more free-blowing and offer less resistance, which many (especially beginning and intermediate) flute players seem to like.

That being said, the Yammy is a excellent student flute. Just be sure to get silver-plated and not nickel-plated. The latter doesn't tarnish but is much too slippery.

Toby

[Gordon (NZ)]

In response to Kymarto, in case it seems otherwise, I consider that I have quite a versatile embouchure, and at the time I was able to make this comparison, I did not consider myself a beginner nor an intermediate player. :)

Perhaps Kymarto happened to get a head that was rather different from mine. Who knows...

[Tibbiecow]

I agree with the Yamaha 200 idea. Such a flute will probably suit you through many years of playing. There are pro players who still have their Yamaha 200 flute for situations when they don't want to risk their expensive flute, such as playing outside or traveling.

You will want an offset G and closed holes. You do not need a B-footjoint. Open holes can be plugged to 'convert' them to a closed hole flute, but closed holes are generally easier for a repair technician to pad and shim.

If you are constrained to shopping locally (since you are in Israel, you may not be able to order a flute from Europe or the US without having customs issues and associated fees) than you could possibly have narrower options. I'm sure if you are in that position that you can get good advice from others here about which models would be suitable.

[Kelpie]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300327104791&_trkparms=tab%3DWatching

Here is the flute I recently bought. I like it a lot. I followed the advice of Gordon and others here on the board and got a closed hole offset G, and it is easy to play and sounds great.

[jmathesonjr]

I have one disagreement to make with Gordon as well and that is the idea he presented in his first post: "It is also a (marketing) myth that the metal choice makes a significant difference to a flute."

My experience with teaching beginner 5th Grade students on up to high school age students is that Nickel flutes are very difficult to hold. They are slippery. Silver flutes (plated or otherwise) are much easier to physically control. I have taken the cheap Armstrong Nickel flute from a 5th grader with four weeks experience and handed her my Wilkins Model open holed, low B foot, Silver flute and heard her get a much more stable sound as well as seeing her get and maintain an embouchure and proper finger position. Metal may not matter so much in the final sound, but I believe that it makes a huge difference in the physical control of the flute.

This first flute will not matter as much as your first teacher will. Get a Yamaha, a Getzen, an Armstrong, a Bundy, or any other known brand. This is your starter flute. When you know what you want, you can get what you want. Just make sure this flute is in good condition and that it is Silver and things will go well for you.

As far as open verses closed hole goes. I do not like to play on a closed hole flute for many reasons. The biggest is comfort. I just do not find a closed hole flute all that comfortable. It may stem from playing the clarinet or it may be that closed hole flutes remind me of a sax that has lost its pearl button. I think this is a decision that is best made in consultation with your flute teacher.

Enjoy the flute.

[Gordon (NZ)]

I totally agree about the slippery nickel plating.

I also believe that nickel plated flutes are often built to a lower standards generally, i.e. nickel plating is just one part of a general cutting in manufacturing costs. This often reflects in the flute playing worse than its silver-plated counterpart.

The (rare) exceptions to this, demonstrate to me that it is probably not the plating causing this, but the details of design that have also been compromised.

In my post I was referring to copper-based base metals versus silver or gold. Sorry about the ambiguity.

[kymarto]

In response to Kymarto, in case it seems otherwise, I consider that I have quite a versatile embouchure, and at the time I was able to make this comparison, I did not consider myself a beginner nor an intermediate player. :)

Perhaps Kymarto happened to get a head that was rather different from mine. Who knows...

I can only speak from my own experience. I have two handmade flutes, one with a classic cut and one with a Cooper head. I also have a turn-of-the-last-century German Hammig, a miserable old Artley and an student Yamaha. I have also owned or played seriously another score of flutes, from old Louis Lots to Flutemaker's Guild to Haynes to Rudall Carte to Powell to Sankyo to Muramatsu to Bonneville. There were certainly differences between the heads, especially as regards blowing resistance and tone color, but there was not a one that I did not feel would not respond to my efforts to produce a full sound.

We are not talking here about the very old elliptical embouchure hole, such as found on ancient British flutes, which are definitely limited in maximum volume, but IME any decent head made in the past 100 years is fully capable of playing in a modern orchestra. One need only listen to Rampal and other 20th century flutists, who played long before the development of Cooper and other "modern" designs, to hear that that is true.

Even with the student flutes, there is very little difference in max volume between the 40 yr. old Artley O-18 and the Yamaha 211. In some ways I like the Artley head better.

YMMV

Toby

[Gordon (NZ)]

"I can only speak from my own experience. "
Likewise. :)

[kymarto]

"I can only speak from my own experience. "
Likewise. :)

Sorry Gordon, I did not mean to imply that you are not an accomplished flutist. It is well known, however, that different players prefer different head joint styles. I believe that the best solution is for each player to decide for her/himself which style feels right, without prejudice or prior belief that one type is superior to another, because we know how often experience follows belief in matters such as this.

It may well be that a majority of players prefer a modern cut, but it does not go without saying that an older style is necessarily inferior, or that an older flute should be rejected out of hand without an audition because it has a classic-cut headjoint.

Toby

[jazzcat58]

+1 Yamaha 200/300 series. Very hard to beat. Some good ones on e-bay(-not that i'm a great fan of e-bay )
Bopity

Had mine about three years now,a 311, got that one on ebay, and luckily i was ok!...as bopity says very hard to beat for the money,for me its a back up to the saxes.
It more than does the job i need of it, excellent..silver head joint too.

[shmuelyosef]

I have a nice Muramatsu EXIII that I love to play, but this is mostly my backup flute...I take my Yamaha 311 to gigs...plays great and I don't worry about it.

[electricfigue]

I have a Yamaha 211 silverplated, closed holes, offset G, and I vote for this one.
It´s a very good flute with a nice sound, if you buy one, you will use for a long time for shure, and if you decide to sell it, it´s easy to do it. Good luck.