Similar fingerings?!?!

[TH]

Just a quickie, which woodwind instrument has the same/similar fingerings to the sax?? :?
Cheers,
THx

[stevesklar]

Clarinet and flute. The clarinet has an extra advantage in that it uses a mpc & reed. Whereas the flute you blow over the hole. I never got used to that and could never just jump to the flute from the sax. I always needed to warm up and get my embouchure correct. I had no probs with the clarinet and still don't.

The flute also has really small keys in some areas.

[Gordon (NZ)]

They are all similar in that the more holes you close, starting from the top, the lower the note WITHIN a scale.

However, there are quite significant differences for all. Some examples:

- The flute fingering is nasty in the top register, where it plays a lot. No similarity.
- The clarinet overblows a 12th, so after you have played up an octave scale, and before you start repeating similar fingerings, there are several totally different fingerings to fill in 5 or so missing notes.
- Clarinet high notes: No similarity.
- Scattered differences throughout the range, e.g. 2nd finger C (with thumb) on sax is the same as recorder, but not flute or clarinet. Standard F#, Bb, and second octave D & Eb have 1 or 2 fingers different on flute. On flute you keep the Eb key down most of the time. Fingers-off C# on sax is C on clarinet. etc.

However fingering differences are a minor consideration, compared to the major differences in blowing requirements.

Clarinet mouthpiece is similar, but embouchure is quite different, and a much stronger breath suport is needed.

It takes a LOT of work for a sax player to get control of tone, volume, and pitch in the third octave of a flute. Control of air usage for good phrasing is also a difficulty for doublers from sax or clarinet.

Doubling is certainly very different from just playing another size of sax.

[MojoBari]

Initially, fingerings seem to be your biggest roadblock. But as Gorden says, the embouchure is more difficult to get and maintain for a good sound.

[Fini]

sax and flute have the exact same fingering, except for a few notes which cant be played the same, obviously since theyre 2 different instruments. but basically, if you know the fingering for one, youll know the other

[Sexyhombre812]

I've been playing Sax for about 4 years and am learning the clarinet. Your best bet is to learn the clarinet. Sure the som of the fingerings are a weird at first but you'll get used to it. The similarities of the fingerings are small some you'll find strangely familiar like a a aobve the staff G# of a 4th line D nataural. But i think its easier to learn new fingerings than to leanr a very difficult embrochure on the flute. The clarinet embrochure is practically the same. The idea of learning new fingerings may seem daunting at first, but they'll become Second nature soon.And dont worry you won't forget Sax fingerings.

[Gordon (NZ)]

....sax and flute have the exact same fingering

Really, that is quite misleading, and it attempts to completely negate my earlier post, which is a statement, I'm sure every serious doubler would acknowledge as being pretty close to fact. Perhaps the statement is a reflection of your flute playing.

[DanY]

Gordon: Fini makes a legitimate point, the fingerings are similar.

Fini: Gordon makes a legitimate point, some of the fingerings are different.

FWIW Gordon, I think your last post was too harsh.

[Gordon (NZ)]

"Fini makes a legitimate point, the fingerings are similar"

Yes, they are indeed SIMILAR but definitely not for the third octave, where the flute typically spends a lot of its time.

But Fini's point that I reacted to was, and I quote again "sax and flute have the exact same fingering". This is simply NOT true.

In fact, unless I have counted incorrectly, there are only 3 notes which share the same standard fingerings - low C, low D, & low Eb.

Yes, you can get away with some sax fingerings 'incorrectly' used on flute, but that will back fire on you as you progress and want better technique and tuning. Very few accomplished flute players would be using these make-do sax fingerings.

The differences in fingering may be small, but SMALL differences are often more difficult to achieve than big differences, because the similarity reminds the brain of its programming of the fingerings for the OTHER instrument.

To illustrate: The last annoying hurdle I had to overcome in playing sax and clarinet, was that a certain fingering was C on the clarinet, and C# on the sax. This was because of the SIMILARITY of fingering.

"I think your last post was too harsh."
Yes, perhaps. I do tend to react assertively when a published statement is DEFINITELY not true. I'm not sure that I should apologise for this - it is a consequence of my passion for personal integrity.

[stevesklar]

Can't we just all get along ???

I've read alot of Gordon's post and he is a very accurate & specific person. Personally I think he is chock full of information. I think he's just trying to give TH the most exact answer as possible. Which I think is fantastic myself.

But we should also be observant on the poster. sexyhombre has only been playing for 4 yrs and may have given a generalized answer based on his/her knowledge. Like my answer was quite plain and simple even though I've been playing sax (inconsistently) since 1974 and clarinet since 1979 or so. I'm sure Gordon has been playing and repairing for as long if not longer than me.

But the main thing that we put over was that the clarinet is probably the easiest to double on. And the flute is a completely different beast all together even though it uses all the fingers (not fingerings) like sax/clarinet.

Personally, I tried the flute for a year in highschool, never could double quickly enough and dropped it. I think clarinet is easier for most sax ppl.
FWIW, YMMV, LASD

[Dave Dolson]

Steve: LASD? Los Angeles Sheriff Department? DAVE

[stevesklar]

LOL Dave,
Figured you would come up with that being [1] from the LA area and [2] a retired law officer !!

But I actually forgot what i meant by LASD . Let's All .. something or another. Stand Down ?? Like All Sax Doublers?? I'm clueless what i meant now .. must have been L A Sheriffs Dept then .....

[Gordon (NZ)]

SD. Those aren't what I thought of~!