Anyone know anything about my Amati bari?

[bartonsax]

On the bell:
Amati (its underlined)
Kraslice
Made in
Czechoslovakia

the serial number is 1127XX and it has the last 3 digits of the s/n on neck.

Let me know if you need pictures and I'll post them.

Thanks!
Bartonsax

[JayeSF]

Pics would help, just so we can guess the age of the horn.

A lot of the info you have already ;)

Amati Kraslice is in what was Czechoslovakia...now Czech republic. They have produced for a long, long tiime...since the '30's, I think...and there was a lotta crossover with Kohlert and Keilwerth from then until the late '40's, when the latter 2 moved away from there.

Unfortunately...I believe there is no solid place to find Amati serial #/dates cross-referenced, although a few members here are afficionados, so if you post in the Amati section, I bet someone can get it down within about 5-10 years.

Old ones could be quite respectable players. They were a good company...and very productive since they supplied a lot of the former East Bloc.

Do you like it ???

[bartonsax]

Well the horn has been around the block. Emilio Lyons just fixed it up and said it had some of the worst tone holes he had ever seen. Now that its fixed I'm starting to like its sound more than my selmer SA80II bari (the Amati is down to low Bb while the selmer is A)....I might even be selling the selmer soon anyway (it's black lacquer).

I'll go post in the Amati forum and put pics up.

Thanks!
Bartonsax

[bartonsax]

I don't know:scratch: Is this "yours?":lol:

Yep I have the reciept to prove it :D

just wondering if you guys know anything about the horns history is it special in any way, is it some certain model etc....

Puting up pictures now just took them

[bartonsax]

Getting pictures up....

[bartonsax]

Pictures here:
http://s578.photobucket.com/albums/ss224/bartonsax/?albumview=grid

[tictactux]

Pictures here:
http://s578.photobucket.com/albums/ss224/bartonsax/?albumview=grid

According to how the logo looks, it's from the '60s.

May or may not be an old Keilwerth knock-off (after WWII, the Keilwerth factory was merged into Amati).

[sax-ony]

May or may not be an old Keilwerth knock-off

As far as I know, the only Keilwerth connection was that Amati incorporated the original Keilwerth factory and made their first instruments using old Keilwerth parts and Keilwerth tooling. The Amati horns of the 1950s and early 1960s ("Classic", "Super Classic" etc.) are visibly cheapened versions of the old Amati/Keilwerth Tonekings. By the time your baritone was made, this Keilwerth influence was just history. I would guess yours is from the very late 1960s or early 1970s. I would expect it to be cheaply made from inferior materials and with poor quality control. Did Emilio Lyons comment on anything other than the dreadful toneholes?

[bartonsax]

May or may not be an old Keilwerth knock-off

As far as I know, the only Keiwerth connection was that Amati incorporated the original Keilwerth factory and made their first instruments using old Keilwerth parts and Keilwerth tooling. The Amati horns of the 1950s and early 1960s ("Classic", "Super Classic" etc.) are visibly cheapened versions of the old Amati/Keilwerth Tonekings. By the time your baritone was made, this Keilwerth influence was just history. I would guess yours is from the very late 1960s or early 1970s. I would expect it to be cheaply made from inferior materials and with poor quality control. Did Emilio Lyons comment on anything other than the dreadful toneholes?

He did not say anything else but he's always interested in it when I go in the store....he always asks what I do with the Amati or where is or if I still have it etc.

[tictactux]

I would expect it to be cheaply made from inferior materials and with poor quality control.
Why would you expect that?

[sax-ony]

I would expect it to be cheaply made from inferior materials and with poor quality control.
Why would you expect that?

Because that is what happened to Eastern Bloc manufacturing over time; because that seems in general to be the reported experience of people who have tried Eastern Bloc saxes from the late 1960s and 1970s (some B&S horns may be an exception); because Boosey and Hawkes imported Amati horns into the UK under various labels at the time, and I have spoken to UK repairers with experience of them.

But I am happy to have my expectations confounded by people with first-hand experience of playing these instruments.

[sax-ony]

He did not say anything else but he's always interested in it when I go in the store....he always asks what I do with the Amati or where is or if I still have it etc.

So why not ask Emilio whether "it is special in any way"? He'll surely give you a much more reliable answer than we can.

[bartonsax]

He did not say anything else but he's always interested in it when I go in the store....he always asks what I do with the Amati or where is or if I still have it etc.

So why not ask Emilio whether "it is special in any way"? He'll surely give you a much more reliable answer than we can.

He just says its a good solid sax (he sold it to me)

[sax-ony]

There you are then. My low expectations were wrong: it's a good solid sax.

[HUTMO]

If the seller of the sax says that it is a good solid sax... it must be. :TGNCHK:

[bartonsax]

I'm not really questioning whether the quality of the sax is good or bad....I'm wondering more of when it was made, and whether or not it has a model name.

[JayeSF]

Pretty horn...funny, it does still have some lingering aesthetic characteristics of Keilwerths, doesn't it ? I have read that it wasn't so much one company using another's parts as the fact that the 3 companies were so close in proximity to one another before the war, then combined after the war, that they just borrowed a lot of each others' ideas and attributes.

But again, it appears this sax is a good decade removed from that earlier relationship.

I would agree, it looks much more 60's than anything else. If your tech says it's solid, yes indeedy, then.

There are a fair number of folks who are fans of old Amatis....so that must be based upon something .....

Is Amati still around ? Could you send a pic and ask the model and approximate year ? Or is it only the NAME which still exists...actual company long gone ????

[tictactux]

Is Amati still around ? Could you send a pic and ask the model and approximate year? Or is it only the NAME which still exists...actual company long gone ????

Very much around: http://www.amati.cz/en/. (The czech version of the page has more images).
There is a music dealer in Austria who has the complete product lineup on his pages: http://www.amatiinstruments.com/

[xax]

I have a low "A" version of this horn stenciled by Boosey and Hawkes as the "Lafleur" (Mine is in need of a neck.)They were also stenciled by King and sold as the "King-Lemaire". Check one out here on CyberSax' site: http://www.cybersax.com/4sale.html. (scroll about halfway down the page) In respectable condition, I'd say they are valued in the $750 range in the States with the low "A"s selling for around $1200 (PM Woodwinds has one right now). In the EU, they seem to go for maybe 25% more (esp the low "A").
IMO the keywork is made of somewhat softer(than average) metal and they are fairly light in weight, not neccesarily a bad thing. 8-)

[DTGAZ]

There is an article about Amati history published by SOTW at this site
http://www.saxontheweb.net/Resources/Amati-History.html that you may find useful.

Regarding communist era production. It is very hard to generalise quality standards for various goods and items produced in various communist states. Some very high quality goods were produced in East Germany (Lens and optical goods) The Russians built some pretty sophisticated aerospace products.

I think what really helped Amati avoid the poor quality reputation were these facts.

They are made in an isolated community away from the prying eyes of the Central planners.(you should try and drive to Kraslice; very much 'a you cannot get there from here feeling')
The company and workers had a three hundred year tradition to uphold.
Since instrument manufacture is mostly labour intensive, the lack of high-tech robots and other automated machinery did not impact negatively on production.
The central planners in the Czech Republic were very consious of the need for Western currency, and export oriented companies like Amati always got priority in material allocations.

Dennis

[bartonsax]

Thanks for the input everyone!
Bartonsax.

[nirnak]

Your sax was made around 1975.

[EgilF.]

I think my Amati Classic barri is older.

[nirnak]

How is SN on this barri, please?