Large Chamber Clarinet Mouthpieces?

[Roger Aldridge]

Clarinet Buddies,

David Spiegelthal checked out my 1960 Couesnon Monopole clarinet and is thinking that it might have 442 tuning. It's not possible to fit after-market barrels to this clarinet. He says his Pomarico crystal mouthpiece has decent intonation on my CM. Pomarico is listed as having a larger chamber. Do any of you know of other clarinet mouthpieces with larger chambers that could be options for me in helping to bring down the pitch of my CM? Intonation is a problem for me on this clarinet with my Grabner mouthpieces. I might try a Pomarico. However, I really love a dark and thick sound...like I get with a Grabner Kaspar. Also, I have to be careful of mouthpiece facings since I use Legere reeds exclusively.

Thanks, Roger

[retread]

Roger, how does it play with one of your Morgan pieces?

[Roger Aldridge]

I no longer have any Morgan clarinet mouthpieces. I had a problem with the facings after I switched to Legere reeds. Anyway, if memory serves, I think Morgan clarinet pieces are designed to be a touch sharp and that would run counter to what I need on this clarinet.

Roger

[warp x]

I use Pomarico crystals with Legere reeds. It's a nice combo. It's worth checking out the Pomaricos.

[Bebopalot]

At the risk of sounding naive about the subject: Clarinet mouthpieces are usually not advertised as "large chamber". Not having measured the chambers in my clarinet mouthpieces, how would I know if I even have large chambered mouthpieces? I play on a Vandoren 5JB and a Grabner Jazz and they are plenty dark and thick. Most of the Pomarico mouthpieces I have played seemed to give me a thin, shrill sound I disliked.

[Roger Aldridge]

You're right about clarinet mouthpiece not often being advertized as large chamber. Pomarico is the only one I've found so far that does that.

Another way to approach this is thinking of clarinet mouthpieces that tend to be on the flat side.

Checking the Pomarico web site, it looks like the Ruby (1.09 mm) facing is the closest to what I'd want.

Anyone on the forum play a Pomarico Ruby? If so, how is its quality of sound? Is it dark as described on the Pomarico web site?

Similar to Bebopalot, bright and thin does not work for me as a clarinet sound.

Roger

[Roger Aldridge]

Well, gang, I have a plan: Since David Spiegelthal has my 1960 Couesnon Monopole, I'm going to order a Pomarico Ruby mouthpiece and have him reface it. Dave told me how he refaced all of his Pomarico mouthpieces. In this way he's in a position to match the Pomarico's facing to the performance characteristics (level of resistance, etc) of my CM clarinet. I have a good feeling about this!

I'll let you know how it works out.

Roger

[Benny]

Clarinet Buddies,

David Spiegelthal checked out my 1960 Couesnon Monopole clarinet and is thinking that it might have 442 tuning. It's not possible to fit after-market barrels to this clarinet. He says his Pomarico crystal mouthpiece has decent intonation on my CM. Pomarico is listed as having a larger chamber. Do any of you know of other clarinet mouthpieces with larger chambers that could be options for me in helping to bring down the pitch of my CM? Intonation is a problem for me on this clarinet with my Grabner mouthpieces. I might try a Pomarico. However, I really love a dark and thick sound...like I get with a Grabner Kaspar. Also, I have to be careful of mouthpiece facings since I use Legere reeds exclusively.

Thanks, Roger

I wouldn't be suprised if its pitched even higher.....I tried a Couesnon that Dave had- a nice sounding clarinet, but played incredibly sharp. Dave told me it was pitched at 442, but when comparing to the length of my R13 Prestige it was about 6-7mm shorter. I then compared it to my current 1960 R13, which is pitched at 442 it it was still significantly shorter. My 1960 R13 is barely different in length to the Prestige.

[Bebopalot]

I would be interested in knowing how that all turns out, Roger. My last Pomarico was a Ruby Mellow and it was a bit thin sounding, especially up high but it was not refaced. If anyone can help a mouthpiece, it's Spiegelthal. Keep us informed.

[MojoBari]

Have you tried just pulling out and using tuning rings?

[super20dan]

i bet the legre will work fine on a xystal mpc-i used a bari plastic for many years on an obrien xystal

[Roger Aldridge]

Mojobari,

Yes...of course. In fact, Phil Muncy custom made a set of tuning rings to fit this clarinet after my repair tech took measurements. (As I mentioned before, with the 1960 CM's bore size and tenon size after-market barrels and tuning rings do not fit it.) But, even with using Phil's tuning rings intonation continued to be problematic with this clarinet.

Happily, my 1970's Couesnon Monopole (my performance clarinet) and Silver Throat Deluxe have excellent 440 intonation and play superbly.

Roger

[martinm5862]

[QUOTE=Roger Aldridge;1181328]Clarinet Buddies,


The Vandoren B45dot is a large chamber mouthpiece but is not pitched as low as my Pomarico.

[MojoBari]

It would be simple emough to hog out a clarinet mouthpiece chamber to be larger. I would first use the Pomarico as a guide and measure its volume. Tape the window shut, fill it with water and pour it in a graduated cylinder. I would do it 3 times to convince myself I am getting consistent measurements. I would take a few physical measurements inside the chamber too using telescoping bore gages, etc. Now we have targets for a alteration plan. We just need a mouthpiece to try them on. If this helps the intonation enough, then one can transfer over your favorite clarinet facing curve to it. There may be some baffle and chamber size issues to deal with too. But these should be minor compared to intonation problems.

[Roger Aldridge]

Just wanted to circle back to let folks know where I'm coming out with this clarinet.

Dave figures that this 1960 Couesnon Monopole must be a European version that was designed for 444 tuning. I ordered a Pomarico Ruby (1.09 mm) mouthpiece and had it shipped directly to Dave for a check over and refacing. The mouthpiece arrived and Dave thinks its facing is fine. He gets passable intonation with this mouthpiece on the CM. However, all of the joints are pulled out and there are still a number of notes that are problematic.

Since I already have two clarinets that play superbly with 440 tuning, I've decided to leave this CM clarinet as is and not attempt to force it to play at 440. Then, if I ever need to play at 444 I'll be ready to go. ha ha ha

Roger

[clarnut]

Then, if I ever need to play at 444 I'll be ready to go. ha ha ha

Roger

Yeah, like when you move to Germany :laughing:

You might consider talking to Allan Segal who makes custom barrels. He may be able to fit it exactly to your horn and adjust for the various issues.

http://www.clarinetconcepts.com/

[MojoBari]

Why? He has two that work.

[clarnut]

It would give him another option of a horn that he likes and will play at 440

[alseg]

Then, if I ever need to play at 444 I'll be ready to go. ha ha ha

Roger

Yeah, like when you move to Germany :laughing:

You might consider talking to Allan Segal who makes custom barrels. He may be able to fit it exactly to your horn and adjust for the various issues.

http://www.clarinetconcepts.com/

Clarnut, thanks for the plug. The wider bore mouthpieces are what neccessitated Moennig to device the taper cone in his barrels. The reverse taper helps compensate for the sharp upper clarion notes and the flat covered lowest notes. He did, however, select a barrel 1mm longer than stock, and he shortened the bell tenon by 1mm to compensate. Newer clarinets (after 1980s) had some internal bore changes to help. Remember that in the 1960s, Selmer HS mouthpieces were common, and they has a wider exit bore than modern Vandorens, etc.
Allan Segal
www.clarinetconcepts.com

[Roger Aldridge]

We need to remember that a 1960 Couesnon Monopole clarinet, like mine, has a different bore size & design, tenon sizes, etc than a comparable Buffet from that period. It's also different from every current production clarinet I've played. The clarinet plays perfectly fine at a higher tuning. I cannot help but think it would be a can of worms to attempt to have it play accurately at 440....especially, regarding tone hole placement.

Around 8 years ago I had an early model Conn c-melody. Remember that horn Mojo? The horn had funky intonation even with the original Conn c-melody mouthpiece that came with the horn. One of the repair techs who worked on my horn spent a considerable amount of time on placing shims in various tone holes to bring the intonation in-line. However, it was like a moving house of cards. When intonation become good on a particular note, it then went out of wack on other notes. Finally, both of us said "enough". I realized that intonation would always be a problem with this horn and I eventually got rid of it (sold it to another c-melody guy who was aware of its problems). I can easily see similar problems happening with my CM clarinet in trying to have it play at a tuning for which it was not designed. After all, think of the intonation issues many clarinetists face -- thus, the market for new barrels -- and they are using 440 clarinets.

Roger

[MojoBari]

I do remeber it. Sometimes you need to punt on 4th down. I had L&H curved sop that I punted on 3rd down!

[Roger Aldridge]

Just wanted to circle back and let folks know where I came out. The Pomarico mouthpiece did not do anything for me so I'm returning it. Happily, Dave thought it was okay and did not reface it. I plan to keep this clarinet. However, I'll continue to use my 1970 Couesnon Monopole as my performance clarinet and the Silver Throat Deluxe as a back up.

My experience of crashing and burning with the Pomarico is another example of whenever I try a clarinet mouthpiece other than a Grabner K14 I'm not happy. So, I'll stick with what makes me happy!

Roger