MP for a big, fat, wide sound

[wsgreen5]

I just kind of fell into about 2500 bucks to finally purchase a tenor for myself, and the sound I'd like to go for as that big, fat, room filling sound.
So, myself not knowing that much about tenor MPs, I was hoping you gurus could give me a few places to start looking for one of these.

-Brent

[Dave dix]

What tenor have you purchased as this will determine the best mpc to use
some horns are dark,bright,thin sounding etc so let us know what make and model you have
Dave

[Mike Cesati]

I gotta say Otto Link hardrubber of course. That's the type tone I like. It's a good model to judge others by. They are inconsistent so try a Doc Tenney if you can.

[Ptrick]

Well $2500 - eh? hmmm...
For starters go to one of the following places and get yersef a nice $1500 -2000 pre-1945 Buescher tenor (400, BigB, or Crat):
www.junkdude.com
www.vintagesax.com - Gayle is VERY good
www.worldwidesax.com
www.saxquest.com

Then take $300-400 and get yersef a great long faced, large chamber HR or plastic mpc with about a .085 - .095 opening from Doc Tenney or maybe Mojo or one of the other top refacers. Maybe give Morgan a call or RPC to see if they can whip up something special. But do it right the FIRST TIME! Do NOT go to WW&BW expecting to get the GOODS from the factory. The people I have listed here will get you the right sound you hear - go someplace else and you will be searching yor years...

Then take the remaining $200 to DA BANK!

[Bootman]

A vintage NY Link metal, not HR will give you that huge room filling sound. A Buescher or Conn or Martin tenor coupled to the NY Link will surprise you in a very pleasant manner indeed. You may need to get the NY Link worked on but this is no great hassle.

Other options are Ponzols, Lawtons, Guardalas 9for a more modern sound), Dukoffs of the Hoilywood type. HR may work well for you but I personally find that the tenor sound is more defined in the current musical environment using a metal mpc.

[wsgreen5]

As far as the tenor itself goes, I really love my Keilwerth SX90 alto. As of right now I'm trying to find out what a tenor of the same variety would cost. I guess I could go as high as 3000 on the horn, but that's pushing it (I'm only a senior in high school for cripes sake!). So, without having played anything yet, I'm kinda biased towards the JKs.

EDIT: Oh, and because I'm a fan of the JK sound, it's not necessary for this mpc to be so dark sounding that the lights go out when I play.

[TenorDude]

I just checked the price of the JK SX90 (No rolled tone holes) Tenor at WWBW and it is $2250.00. This would allow you to purchase a Morgan L or EL mouthpiece and have plenty left for reeds and shipping!!!!

Check other threads re Keilwerths with straight tone holes. Many think they are almost identical in sound to the (r) model.

I have a Black Nickel SX90r and use a morgan 8EL. This combo produces a very dark, full sound, yet can be played quite loud if necessary (much to the distress of our band leader!).

[twowheels]

Regarding mouthpiece, I recommend the metal SR Tech "Professional", .108" tip. Gives you a FAT, dark sound that is large enough to fill a warehouse! I've played it now on "dark" and "bright" tenors and it still has a wonderful BIG sound.

[Morry]

That's the kind of sound I strive for with my SX90R tenor and my Barone metal Jazz piece. I've switched mpcs often, but keep coming back to that one.

[singlereed]

I get that kind of tone on a copy of a 1950's HR Otto Link 8 facing made by Anton Weinberg. Very classy and at £125 (say US $200 approx as you wouldn't pay the tax) for a custom handmade piece, not excessively expensive compared to a vintage buy. Contactable via www.dawkes.co.uk though you won't find any info there about this particular mouthpiece. Phone or email them if interested.

[wsgreen5]

I just checked the price of the JK SX90 (No rolled tone holes) Tenor at WWBW and it is $2250.00. This would allow you to purchase a Morgan L or EL mouthpiece and have plenty left for reeds and shipping!!!!

That certainly is interesting. I was thinking I was gonna have to go the eBay rout because there aren't really any dealers around here that carry keilwerths (I got my alto on ebay). I live about 3 hours from South Bend, so I'm thinking it would be worth the drive to head out to WWBW and check out a bunch of 'em.

Anyway, thanks for the heads up! Also, I'll look into the Morgan mpcs.

-Brent

[wsgreen5]

I was just browsing around saxquest and stumbled across a doc tenney Link stm. Would a piece like this be worth checking out? Also, after reading person after person rave about the JodyJazz ESP mpcs, what are your experiences w/ one of those matched to a JK?

[m3pilot]

Personally, I think the Tenney STM should be one of your top choices. I have two non-current production STMs that Doc has done and they are both fantastic pieces. I've played quite a few of his current pieces as well and they are just as good.

Also, I have to disagree with bootman on the need for it to be a vintage metal NY (Tonemaster? STM?) Link to get a "room-filling" sound. Doc loaned me a hr 6* link that he's done quite a bit of work on. I used it in a rehearsal with drums, bass and hammond organ and I had no trouble filling the room and keeping up with the other instruments. I've had plenty of metal pieces that didn't have the efficiency to do that.

Give a close look to Doc's slants. They're great too but I don't own one . . . yet.

[swingerini]

Gotta put in a plug for Fred Lamberson's craftsmanship

" J " chamber, 6 tip opening

http://www.fred.lamberson.com/

[Mike Cesati]

All of the advice given is Good here.

Step 1 try all these mpcs(this is the bad part)

Step 2 find the one that makes your SOUND CONCEPT come out. Find a SOUND CONCEPT by equating it with a player/recording etc.

Step 3 Buy it , sell all others .Practice everyday with that mpc.Have fun

[BATMAN]

Mike has the right idea :)

Try to keep your collection to one or two pieces. If you spend more time "testing mouthpieces" than practicing, you're not going to get anything done. I say up to two pieces because you never know when you need a backup :)

GAS is fun, but the shed is where it's at.

[wsgreen5]

Yeah, I've learned that over the course of the past few years. I've toyed with changing the mpc I play on alto, but nothing I've tried has been better than my S80 C** which I've had since about 7th grade and has been a surprisingly good match to my JK. All it takes is a reed change to get the different tone qualities I need for legit and jazz playing. I'm not expecting to be able to achieve that w/ this little project, so I could conceivably get two pieces (one for legit and one for non-legit).

Anyway, more time shedding and less time MP shopping has definitely helped my playing!

Also, any comments about the ESP would be appreciated.

-Brent

[Walnuts]

Big, FAt, and Wide is how my Stainless Steel Berg Larsen plays. The thing is, the one I own is from the 1960s. I've tried a few newer Bergs but none were as good. Its rather industrial though. Doesn't blend it at all. It'll make you stick out no matter what the setting you're playing in is.

[JfW]

I tried an SR Titan the other day. It seems to fit what you're looking for

[TJS]

I would try an RPC. I have a .120 that is definitely big and fat.

[10mfan]

hi,
i have a conn 10m that will fill ANY room. fat, dark, focussed, ballsy, full, etc...
cant beat the sound of an old 10m. it has rolled tone holes and is from 1939. naked lady on the bell. needs NOTHING.
serial is 288,xxx. i have a brilhart tonalin that would be perfect for this horn! big, huge, warm sound.
let me know. pics available. i could do the whole deal for under $2000

write me at: connsaxman@comcast.net

[wsgreen5]

Sorry 10mfan, but I couldn't help but get another JK. I ordered it today, so I should get it in a week or so.

Thanks for your suggestions everyone, and I'll see if I can get my hands on this rather large list of pieces to experiment with!

-Brent

[10mfan]

no problem. you do realize that the JK's were designed after the early rolled tone hole 10'm's...dont you?
the JK's are good horns, and they certainly can fill a room up!
good luck, and let us know what you think after you've had a chance to get use to it.

[swingerini]

no problem. you do realize that the JK's were designed after the early rolled tone hole 10'm's...dont you?
the JK's are good horns, and they certainly can fill a room up!
good luck, and let us know what you think after you've had a chance to get use to it.

I think the JKs are also borrowing from the Buescher 400 THCs with
the wider bow section and bell flare .

Think about it and you'll see what I mean.

Keilwerth had been using rolled holes since the 30s; influenced by Conn,
certainly. The modern versions also took a cue from the 400 THC.

[Hurling Frootmig]

I agree that there's a little bit of a simularity between the two in the sense of bell flair. The tone from the Keilwerth is wide and rich but my TH&C is even more so.

[wsgreen5]

And in taking a little of this and a little of that from various horns of the past, Keilwerth has succeeded in making the ultimate saxophone! All other manufacturers might as well stop making horns. Or at least just copy the JKs. :lol:

-Brent

[Bo Meyer]

Use a open chamber mouthpiece, with a hard reed to get the "wood" sound.

I use either Meyer brothers NY large chamber, or Berg Larsen "Duckbill" with extended table from 1940´s - 50´s.

I use a rovner on the Berg to take the egde of the tone.

Good luck

Bo Meyer

[Subtone Sam]

Metal Claude Lakeys are very good jazz mpcs,one of the best I've tried.

[Subtone Sam]

And in taking a little of this and a little of that from various horns of the past, Keilwerth has succeeded in making the ultimate saxophone! All other manufacturers might as well stop making horns. Or at least just copy the JKs. :lol:

-Brent

You haven't tried a Buescher 'Crat then... ? :lol: