Vandoren ZZ

[Anonymous]

I just received this email reply from Vandoren, regarding the new ZZ sax reeds. I had asked about the cut of the reeds, and their availability in stores:

"Thank you for your message regarding the ZZ reeds. It is actually in between the Java and V16 cuts. It seems to last longer and has a great sound and response.

We introduced these reeds a few weeks ago and dealers have begun placing orders for the reeds. They are now available and you should start seeing them in stores."

[Subtone Sam]

zzzzz....

[Anonymous]

that's kinda what I thought about the name, too... :wink:

[BobD]

I've been playing the ZZ's on tenor and I like them. I really like the V16's too.

[TerryD]

I've heard good things about the zz reeds indirectly, but I'm wondering where they fall on the strength charts. Are they about the same as javas? What is the sound like..ie.... deep, edgy, etc. How do they play...are they long lasting as they claim? Thanks for the info.

[Tsax]

I am very interested in the ZZ as well. I favor the Java, and I am somewhere in between the 3 or 3,5. On the old forum I read they play somewhat softer than Java's. Does anyone know if that is the case?
I think I will order a box, or maybe the store here will carry them and I will be able to try two of each size. I was thinking that maybe - for strategy reasons - the ZZ will be more consistent than the Java's (because the company still has to win us for their new reed).

[dolphy]

My experience has been they play somewhat softer than Javas. I work at a music store and we were comped some tenor ZZ's at the NAMM show.

[Tsax]

Thanks dolphy, in that case I'll probably will be better of with the 3,5.

[Tears June]

I would say Java is more softer than ZZ. I'm using Java 2.5 alto and just brought a box of 2.5 ZZ to compare. Definitely ZZ is more hard, or it has much more resistant than Java, not as free blowing feel as Java.

:cry:

[sinkdraiN]

I tried both the alto and tenor ZZ #3 Both boxes played nice. I still prefer Javas on my Morgan alto mouthpiece. However, the ZZs played extremely well on my V16 tenor mouthpiece. The V16 mouthpiece with the ZZ reed played big and full up top and had the best low note response of any reed I have played on tenor. The low notes pop right out with a huge full sound. I now play ZZs on tenor.

Also, all 5 reeds played great right out of the box. I used to play V16s and I'd be lucky to get 2 reeds that played from a box of 5.

[woodwindmaster06]

"There is a new reed that we just introduced, the ZZ reeds. It is a new jazz reed that is somewhere between the Java and V16 reeds in terms of cut. It has an immediate response, very colorful tone and seems to last long. They are currently available for alto and tenor sax and in June they will introduce the Bari sax reeds in this cut. No plans for Java bari reeds at this point." Vandoren- BARI REEDS COME OUT IN JUNE!!!

[BigDaddyJ]

Just got a couple of boxes of these reeds in 3 and 3 1/2 for tenor. I really like these reeds. They have everything I liked about a good V16 reed, but more so of those attributes. Consistency blows me away so far. I would use every one I've tried so far in a gig. I think they are slightly softer than V16s.

[Bnatural]

i just picked up a box today and i thought on alto the bottom register was none existent...... up high it was pretty nice.... maybe with some work they will work out for me

[Joseph Boucher]

Vandoren now has four types of reeds. The Traditionals, Java, Jazz, and now ZZ. Is Vandoren planning on dropping one of these types in the future? That's if the ZZ really takes off. Joe.

[Toni Linder]

I tried to buy Vandoren ZZ here in Switzerland. No way - at least not before summer, I was told. I don't understand their marketing policy.

[Goin4DaTone]

I have been using Java 2 1/2's on alto. I bought 2 boxes of the 2 1/2 ZZ's, and I agree with Tears June. The ZZ's are harder and have more resistance than the Javas 2 1/2 on alto.

[HandaMan]

I just got a new box of ZZ's and I think they are fantastic! The Javas were okay, but I barely got two good reeds out a box of 10. I might have broken them in wrong. These ZZ's sound sweet and bright. Sound great with an SR LEgend alto.

[HandaMan]

I use 3's btw

[sjabariiii]

Where can I order the ZZs for tenor? WWBW seems to not have any. :?:

[sinkdraiN]

I bought mine from discountreeds.com they had a great price and it only took 2 days for the reeds to arrive. If that link doesnt work try discountreed.com

[Paul S]

i have been battling to find somewhere to order these - eventually ordered them from yahoo stores

shop.store.yahoo.com/1stopclarinet/newvanzztens.html

they claim to have them in stock - i write back if this proves incorrect.

[Thomas]

I've tried the tenor Z's,2.5-no big deal- sound and play approximately like Superial DC's but seem sort of weak in the extreme low and high registers. They're ok just don't go nutz trying to get them.

[Stretch]

I heard a live interview of Phil Woods on CJRT Jazz.FM radio last night and when asked about his setup by saxman/deejay Doug Watson, Phil said he was using ZZ now and gave them a ringing endorsement. He said you couldn't pay him enough to endorse product he didn't like. I had never heard of this new reed before a D'Addario rep gave me a few samples at the IAJE conference in January. I like them a lot!

[Cameron Wigmore]

The couple that I tried were very buzzy and responsive right out of the box. I have a feeling that they'll die way sooner, but have to wait and see .....

[Stretch]

I have been playing the same ZZ reed a couple of hours a day for a month and still going strong. Vandoren claims that this brand is a long lasting one.

[sinkdraiN]

Yeah, the ZZs are long lasting. I have been using them on alto and tenor now. They feel like they''ll get soft fast but they dont. The secret is the thicker tip. The ZZ has a thick tip like a V16 but has a little less wood on the heart. The thick tip ZZ will outlast a java. I find the ZZ to be a nice combination of the javas buzz and the V16s meaty sound. I find consistency to be better with the ZZs. Thats a huge plus

[Paul S]

i got my tenor zz 3's at last.

I pulled the first one out slapped it on and played (no wetting, rubbing, drilling, sucking, throwing of the bones, etc! :roll: ) - it played great right off. i have left it on the mouthpiece all weeked and played about 5 hours on it on and off - no problem. Plays a little softer than a v16 I'd say and maybe a little buzzier, but nice solid tone.

I have yet to try the rest of the box....if they're as good as this one then I'm sold.

[Paul S]

ok, so i've played 3 of them now. one was quite a bit softer, one a bit harder, but both were quite good.

They have a little more buzz than the V16's - i think these are designed to compete directly with Rico Jazz Select - quite similar for me.

[colibri]

I have yet to try the rest of the box....if they're as good as this one then I'm sold.

I remember there was a time when every Alexander reed plays extremely well. There was a time when every Zonda and Hemke and Glotin reed was playable, but that's a long time ago, before these reeds got popular. Now they're just as inconsistent as any other brands.

If you gotta buy the ZZ reeds, buy them now. It's probably the best time. It won't be long until someone reports an unplayable reed in a box of ZZ. Later, you'll find two duds. Eventually three, four...

[Balladeer]

All the talk here influenced me to try some ZZ's for tenor. I got them from WWBW and they arrived today. I took the first reed out of the box, wet it in my mouth, slapped it on the mouthpiece and played. The reed played perfect with an easy blowing feel and a noticeable buzz. Low notes and altissimo are equally easy to play. These were strength #3. I have no complaints.

How do V16's compare to the ZZ's? Are they fatter sounding with little or no buzz? Do they play as easily?

[Cameron Wigmore]

The V16's are less buzzy and you can get more volume without overblowing.

I tried a 2 1/2 zz on my tenor and realized that it's too soft, so I got a #3. It plays wierd - like it's hard but soft at the same time. The pitch seems to go off easier. I don't really dig these reeds. One more try with the #3's. I still like the plain old rico's. Of course, when my wallet's fat I go for other reeds, but I always come back to the ricos.

[Goin4DaTone]

I was using a Jody Jazz 7 with a Jody Rovner lig, and the ZZ's did not work for me.
I changed mouthpieces and now I am having great success with these reeds. I tried my old JDX 7 with a Winslow Lig, and I am very pleased with the results. Great tone, great response.

[colibri]

I had my first box of Vandoren ZZ today. I didn't like them. The consistency is the same with the V16 and Java. Back to the orange Ricos.

[Mark R]

Just got my first box of Tenor ZZ 3's (I usally play Vandoren Blue Box 21/2) and I was pleasantly surprised. I like them much better than Java or V16's I've tried in the past. Only time will tell if they are as durable and have the life that regular Blue Box do...but so far so good. Can't remember who posted but I do agree they play quite similar to Superial DC's.

[sthmlly]

I just bought a box of 2.5 alto zz's off of wwbw. These replies make me kind of iffy. So far I've liked the javas, but i'm not sure how the strength compares to the zz's. If anyone can tell me what a zz 2.5 would be in java, please let me know.

[Vortex]

I'll vouch in favor of the ZZ's, even though the 'consistency' isn't that great, the overall playability is. Admittedly some are darker/brighter than others, but I can't say I've been unhappy with any of them. Every time I've been in a tight situation reed-wise, where all the other reeds have gone down the crapper, the ZZ's have been there to let me pull through - they definately have a long life and don't go down without a fight. Alexander DC's are still top for me, but when I can't use those ZZ's are fine with me any day.

[rini]

I play MkVI tenor and changed to Vandoren ZZ's just recently, having played V16s, Fibracells and - of course - Rico's before that.
Just to see how ZZ's perform I tried couple them on all my "lower drawer" mouthpieces.
I was surprised that some of those I had discarded performed really well with ZZ's.
Especially succesfull were a HR Meyer M10, HR Link 7* (70's-80's vintage) and - not surprisingly - Vandoren Java T75.

Also my "standard" pieces Morgan EL9, Pillinger NYT (.108) and Francois Louis Custom 7* played beautifully with these reeds.

The biggest surprise however was the HR Meyer M10. I didin't like it at all before, but now with ZZ's (2, 1/2 - 3) it was like a completely new mouthpiece. Very easy to play, effortless, beautiful compact tenor sound, all kinds of articulations easy.
Of course it's not a "modern" piece at all. More mainstream jazz, not r&r. Anyway, it's only now I can understand why it's so popular also as a tenor mouthpiece. I couldn't stand it before.

So Vandoren ZZ's for me. Also I like the Java T75 more than I used to.

rini

[Dentarthurdent]

I have been experimenting with a lot of different brands over the last year. I'm really digging the ZZs.
Incidently Rini, I also play a T75 which works a treat with the ZZs.
I had a bout of GAS a little while ago and got a Brancher HR piece - the jury is still out on it but I was wondering whether anyone had any ideas about reads which work well with it. I love the sound but it doesnt want to sing like my T75 - and ideas??

[area51recording]

For a long time now I've had a love / hate relationship with various synth reeds- here recently I tried Hemke 3 1/2's and I really like 'em a lot... what strength of ZZ's would be comparable with these?

[Sakae]

(how do I erase repeated posts?)

[Sakae]

Why is that all about this ZZ reed?

[heath]

Personally I really disliked the zz read. 10 years ago they introduced the Java and that's always been the reed for me. I find that I get more players per box than with any of the other vandoren including the V16.

For me the zz's came off stuff and a little hard sounding. And they're a stiffer reed so you may want to try one grade softer than the Java's if that's what your playing.

[Vortex]

This is of course far from a perfect comparison, but I'd make the analogy that Javas are to ZZ's as the Selmer Series III is to the Selmer Reference 54. My logic is that the III is more round-sounding and versatile, while the 54 seems to have more projection and edge behind it. You could probably get away with playing classical on a Java, but on a ZZ it's not likely - these are more specialized toward a jazz/latin flavour. In that regard the ZZ can carry though where a Java would lack. ZZ's are about the same strength as a Java, maybe a little softer. Articulation is more reliable on ZZ's but more consistent on Javas.

Just try them and see what you think, but give 'em a fair chance.

[Vortex]

Sorry about that, double-posted somehow.

[SAXISMYAXE]

I agree with Vortex regarding the relative reed strengths; I find the ZZ to be softer (and less stuffy :? ) in general strength compared to the Java, Classic, and V16's.

[BATMAN]

I agree with saxismyaxe/vortex.

The ZZ is softer than a same strength V16/JAVA and more open. But I find them much brighter. They are fairly consistent for a Vandoren product though :) They also last longer than RJS, which I use :(

area51: the Hemkes and ZZs are comparable in strength.

[heath]

Actually the java's are the softest out of the ZZ and V16.

Look at this graph from vandoren and you'll see that the cut on the Java is indeed thinner.

http://images.misupply.com/downloads/Vandoren/ZZ_Reed_ColorA.pdf

[Vortex]

aah, double-posted, my fault

[Vortex]

heath, i'm sorry to say that graph doesn't mean much. many players have been noticing javas getting harder lately. i have one mouthpiece which will play most zz 3's without sanding, but i have to sand down most java 3's to make them play to my liking. in the end that's the real gauge of strength.

those charts don't mean much - i need make no modifications to a classique 3 to play it, yet at the same time i can't play much harder than a vandoren bluebox 2.5 on most anything unless it's very closed. it's all relative, folks

[area51recording]

I ordered a box of ZZ 3-1/2's for tenor from WWBW. For the first time EVER in the 17 years I've been playing sax all 5 reeds in the box were "players". Could just be luck- but honestly before this in a box of five of any brand I would consider 3 players to be a pretty good box. I've been playing Hemkes for a couple months now after a couple of years of playing every synth reed under the sun. I liked the Hemkes pretty well but I REALLY like the ZZ's- they seem to respond a bit easier and still have a lot of center to the tone. I used one on the gig yesterday for the first time with a 50's-60's showband I play with and was really pleased with the result- good balance of bright and full sound. Since bagging the synth reeds and heading back to cane I'd have to say the ZZ's are my fav so far by a good margin.

[heath]

Okay I'll admit that I've been liking my ZZ's that I bought a while back. They didn't work on my Link, but the Kessler OL7 seems to be real compatible.

I still think that Javas seem the softer of the ZZ's and the V16's but ymmv.

[larry]

I did a reed search when I changed mouthpieces last year (tenor) and ended up liking the ZZ 2 1/2s on my new tenor Runyon Custom. When I upgraded to a Berg HR earlier this year, I found that the ZZs worked well for me there as well.

Recently, I invested in a box of the Alexander Superials because I've heard good things about them but they're just not working for me. They're a lot stiffer than their numbers indicate (I also got 2 1/2) and I get a lot of chirping out of them. For me and my setup, the low end is very dull and hard to express.

I'm still a big ZZ fan - I always appreciate a good buZZ! :wink:

Anyone want to trade 3 new tenor Superials (2 1/2) for something interesting?