difference in sound between pro and student?

[Wildsaxbabe]

i have been playing alto for two years. was playing the high schools student model and auditioned on that for the conservatorium of music. i was told i had to buy a professional model sax so i did, bought a yas 62 silver plated (which is a mega bitch to clean by the way).

anyway i personally dont' think the pro one sounds any different to the student one. maybe its cos i didnt' compare them in close time frames. can anyone tell me if there should be?

[citizn cane]

I've played a couple of killer student horns over the years, & for a while I actually owned & recorded with a student Conn for a few months. Eventually, more often than not, you end up discovering something that's not quite right, though (intonation, keywork, adjustment hassles, etc.). The more you play, the easier it becomes to assess a horn, but it's always best to do side-by-side comparisons, if possible, for a number of reasons.

[Franksparks]

iv only been playing for six months and found when I changed
from student to semi pro, the sound was "diferent" like to think it is a lot better but not yet qualified to say, however my poor dog has stopped leaving the room when i practice so must be something in it, to be honest i think the combination of beter horn beter MPc and beter chops makes the difference.

Frank

[schssax04]

you know, i have found cats that play on intermediate horns, and just rip it up, but when they get on a better horn, they just don't sound the same. remember, if it fits your sound, don't let anyone give you some bs about the inferior quality of your horn. I myself play on a Mark VI, and that is what i love, but you know, i am sure that there are some cats out there that play on a bundy II and have been for years, and i bet they can rip on it :lol:

so don't let anyone tell you you have a bad horn, cuz if you like it, then it's the right horn for you :wink:

[katysax]

The sound comes from the player not the horn. I actually found that I did not play as well when I switched from a YAS 52 (intermediate horn) to a YAS 875 (custom pro horn). I went through several more horns until I finally found pro horns that I liked as well as the YAS 52 and a couple more before I finallys settled on a pro horn I like better than the YAS 52.

I have heard pro players who can wail and sound awesome on the cheapest piece of junk student horn.

[Kareeser]

I recently switched from a 767GL (Intermediate Horn) to a 869SG (Professional Horn).

What I noticed was a more responsive keywork, and I didn't need as much air to play. It could be because the sax is a bit smaller, but I have not done a side by side comparison.

I wholeheartedly agree with the other comments, saying that some student horns sound excellent...

[Wildsaxbabe]

thanks guys! i really didnt' expect such a quick reply! yeah, i loved the old student one, they had given me the oldest one they had..they had written it off as a demo model and no one else could get a sound out of it..hehe.. i guess i could cause thats wat i learned on. but yeah thanks again. :D

[schssax04]

hey man, that's what this thing is here for

i am consistently amazed at how many people are willing to give me advice whenever i ask for it, so you have found a good family here

welcome!

Jase

[griff136]

Wildsaxbabe.

You say your silver sax is a bitch to clean.

Heres a few tips - this is how I keep my 5 digit silver plated Mk VI Selmer looking mint!

1. have a silver cloth inside a sealable plasic bag. - keep it in your case.

2. after cleaning out the instrument one you have finished playing - wipe over the sax with the cloth. ( thats wipe not rub until your arms hurt)

3. keep 3m protection strips inside your case - these will "suck" the majority of the sufides from the air in your case (sulfides are the stuuf that cling to the sweat where your hands have been on the silver and makes the area tarnish.


These paper strips should be available from a decent jewellers shop - theyre used fro putting inside display cases with silver jewellry etc in them. They are also very inexpensive. :)


you can also order them from www.windcraft.co.uk

Regards

Griff

[TH]

I have just today bought a Custom Z in black (yes ... im very poor now) to replace my 10 yr old 'student' Trevor James 'horn'..... Although the sound difference between the two isn't as big as I thought it would be, IMO I would say the Yamaha has a stronger, more robust sound.... But the biggest difference IMO between the two is definitely the build quality... My word its so solidly built, I knew as soon as I picked it up that this was my 'precious'...... and an hour later is was :twisted: .... It's one sexy beast, and it's so responsive - boy those fast passages are so much easier to play with my Z...... The black looks the part (altho part of me wishes that the keys were silver... sigh) and if anyone is thinking of buying from Saxophones.co.uk, do it! I went in person, and they were great, and soooo helpful.

Rant over..... :)

THx

[Franksparks]

TH

have fun with it.

Frank

[JoeV]

I have a Bundy II student sax, and my teacher has a rare pro sax (not sure which model, made in the 60's, worth bout 6k) When we play solos in unison, you can sound how much richer his tone is than mine. Reed strengh and the type of mouthpeice cotributes to tone quality.

[Wildsaxbabe]

Griff136, thank you very much for your advice on how to clean my baby :) Everytime i touch it i have to wipe it down and it's not just a quick wipe down its more of a RUB down! I will definetly check out those strips you mentioned. thanks again :)

[Saxy_Dan]

I went from a YAS 23 to Custom 82z. I noticed I needed a change when I started recording. Dynamcs weren't consistent throughout the range of the horn, high notes were way sharp, I wanted a fuller sound, and I wanted cleaner key action (i'd get breaks in sound when I play runs).

I tested the 82z and thought it'd be an obvious improvement, then I tried a Conn, a Selmer (La Voix), and an Yani (don't remember the model), and I kept noticing intonation problems. I'd have to push the mouthpiece way in to get one in tune, I'd get one note that's way out of tune on another one, but I kept going back to the 82.

Now that I have it, I'm getting everything I needed. Clean runs, dynamic control, as well as much better intonation and sound.

[Dentarthurdent]

Katysax has it right. What sounds like a huge difference to the player is often barely noticable to the listener. Put Brecker on a student horn and he will still sound like Brecker. A better horn just helps you sound like you want easier - to put it another way with a pro horn you are not fighting the horn as you might with a cheaper sax. The sound comes from the player. Choice of instrument really comes down to whether the horn helps or hinders you acheive the sound you are looking for.
Having said all that it is also right that if you are killing on a student horn and a pro one just doesn't work for you don't worry - use what works for you.
The reality though is that some players do get caught up in the whole 'street cred' issue of horn ownership; the 'you can't be a serious player unless you have a Mark VI' mentality. Don't subscribe to that view!
P.S I'm not dissing' Mark VIs!

[Razzy]

The sound comes from the player not the horn.

Sort of.

The player has to FIT with the horn, and indeed the entire setup in question. From what I've encountered, it at least seems like you have to grow into a mouthpiece, but you have to just FIND that right horn for you. I've played the same mouthpiece for three years now, but the Yamaha 62 I've had for the past year and a half just never seemed to "grow" on me like that mouthpiece did after a couple of months. Recently I switched to a Mark VI and blam, the fit was just right there. The instrument is easier to play, has a nicer sound all across the range, register changes are easier, no dead notes, etc.

Better horn? Probably. Better fit for me and my style of play? Certainly.

Just as an aside... my colleagues and my teacher definitely heard the difference. I play lead in my school's big band, and half way through the rehearsal the 2nd tenor player said, "WHAT happened to your sound, dude??" then he looked at the horn and noticed it was different. If I were playing a student horn I'd still sound like me, of course, but I wouldn't sound like the best me possible.

[Dlew]

yeah I can attest to that, but it also depends whos listening and for what. atm my gear is a bundyII with a c* mpc. standard selmer ligature. from what the kids in my cadet band say as well as school they say that it sounds great and ask me what I do with my reeds and where I got my mpc and how much etc. But when I tried an yas459 - I think it was it was an intermediate model I heard a major diffrence and my tone on my old horn sounds worse now because I liked how that model sounded. I have on order a as220 from selmer so I'm hoping that it will play nice because my folks are willing to front the money for it. So when my sax teacher who has a super action 80 and I play together I obviously sound the gross but when I play at school I sound the best. so its all in context.



keep ripping it up.

don

p.s mark 6 note. I have never heard a mark VI till previously I joined a concert band teh man next to me is going on I'd say 70 ish hes been playing sax for 42 years and when he asked me my model I told him a selmer bundy II and I asked him his being curious seeing quite an old sax in front of me when he told me mark VI I almost fell out of my chair. Vintage horns .... nothing like them.

[Franksparks]

Iv also been playing for two years now, I v got a TJ Sig Alto this is my second
horn,was thinking of moving up to a pro horn until I was playing the other day with a pro player, also on alto, we got talking and I was complaining as I always do about my sound, he took my sax, put on his Mpc and wailed..
Conclusion not the sax, I just need to do more work.

[Clarinophonist]

When i bought a pro horn it took me a good year to work the thing in, also to figure out little niggles in then horn which i needed to get used to. I like the sharp open C#, nowadays i automatically play it in tune, but when i got the horn my intonation was all over the place. I think any new horn will not play as good as it should straight off because you arent used it, every saxophone has its own character. Just as they say with marraige, a saxophone gets better with time.

[Mime]

The begginer saxes are called that way for a reason. They're for beginners so at first it's just fine but sooner or later (the more you practice the sooner) comes a time when your sax just isn't good enough for you and it stops your development in sound and techneaque, thats pretty much when you get a pro/intermiediat sax which fits you. And then it's baisically whatever sax that suites you best...
That's why you might have not noticed a big differance in the two saxes, niether have I when I switched it a few years ago but now I can't stand my old Century.
Hope I helped