View Full Version : Theo Wanne Kali pass around -- Round 2
Spooner
05-29-2009, 12:25 AM
Hello all,
After a longer than expected break in the Kali pass around, I'm pleased to announce that the Theo Wanne Kali is back in circulation. All of the folks that were on the original list still have their place in line, and anyone else interested in getting on the list please send me a PM with your info.
The rules will be similar to our previous pass arounds on SOTW:
1) Once the mouthpiece is recieved, please PM me to let me know who has it and where it is, and I will message you back letting you know who the next peron in line is, and their contact info.
2) You may keep the mouthpiece for up to 5 days.
3) After five days you commit to shipping the mouthpiece on to the next person on the list, using the provided packaging.
4) Add your thoughts to this Kali review thread: http://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?t=85647
The Kali will be a size 8 tip opening (.110").
If you are interested, please PM me with your information:
SOTW USER NAME
ACTUAL NAME
ADDRESS
EMAIL ADDRESS
PHONE NUMBER
PLEASE NOTE!! since I'm now coordinating a number of separate pass arounds (I am starting a Durga pass around as well), please specify which mouthpiece you are wanting to try out in your PM to me-----------thanks!
Spooner
05-29-2009, 09:16 PM
The Kali goes out to the next person on the list today.
Enjoy!
Mike F
06-02-2009, 09:23 AM
Hi Spooner,
I wonder, as you work with Theo, could you give us some first hand comparisons between an original hand finished Kali (run B), which is presumably what you have, and one of the new ones with the totally machined finish, (run 5B)?
I know the new ones are supposed to be better - hence the second pass around with the new version, but I'm sure some of us with an original Kali would be interested in an A-B comparison.
Many thanks.
EgilF.
06-02-2009, 05:19 PM
Still only USA?
- and Norway are not a part of USA??
Spooner
06-03-2009, 04:06 PM
Hi Spooner,
I wonder, as you work with Theo, could you give us some first hand comparisons between an original hand finished Kali (run B), which is presumably what you have, and one of the new ones with the totally machined finish, (run 5B)?
I know the new ones are supposed to be better - hence the second pass around with the new version, but I'm sure some of us with an original Kali would be interested in an A-B comparison.
Many thanks.
In response to your query Mike F--
I've been playing one of the original Kali 8 pieces from the first run as my main piece, and after playing one of the pieces from the new run I can indeed report that in my opinion they are even better.
There were some minor cosmetic changes to the exterior that don't affect the sound, but the main change was in the baffle geometry. It is a very subtle change, but it does definitely have an impact.
To my ear, the newer run of the Kali does everything that the original does, just more of it. I can hear more overtones present for a more complex sound, and it can have even more edge when pushed while still not thinning out at all in the mid range and with a huge bottom end.
As far as a mouthpiece having a polished baffle vs a machine finished baffle, we discovered quite a while ago that it did not really have as much of an impact on the sound of the piece. The geometry has a far greater effect, and the pieces are more consistent if a fine machine finish is used rather than introducing the variability that polishing by hand can cause.
--Bottom line is that the newest run of Kali mouthpieces truly are an improvement on an already great mouthpiece.
Rackety Sax
06-11-2009, 01:37 PM
Any chance of resurrrecting the Parvati passaround? I know it'll probably get too confusing...
pneumasax
06-11-2009, 03:05 PM
Theo is coming out with the DURGA and KALI altos in the coming week and month respectively. Is there a possiblity of having a "pass around" with those?
Since I'm new to the term "pass around" I am assuming it means that there is a mouthpiece that is sent around to requesting players to try, right?
Thanks..........
The Kali goes out to the next person on the list today.
Enjoy!
Spooner
06-18-2009, 11:15 PM
Hello again everybody--
Our Kali pass around list has gotten pretty crazy long--so in an effort to let everybody try the piece without having to wait for 8 months, we have introduced a second Kali into the pass around to run simultaneously.
This should cut everybody's wait time in half.
The second piece goes out today.
I am going to be sending everyone that I've been corresponding with some emails updating the next in line that they should send the piece to----if you are at all unsure about what to do or what your status in the pass around is, please PM me and we'll get it squared away in short order.
shortwhite
07-15-2009, 07:35 AM
I received the Kali tenor mp around the same time I received the Durga bari mp to try out. It got a little crazy around here for a while. I'll post about the Durga bari mp in another thread.
First of all, just absolutely stunning craftsmanship. This mouthpiece looked as good as it played. I used a #3 Java Red on the mouthpiece. The first thing I noticed was how quick the response is with this mouthpiece. Easily as fast as any of the Guardalas I have owned. Articulation was no problem. I was a little surprised the low end responded as well as it did. The Kali has a fairly high baffle but the low end responded as easily as the rest of the horn. From FF to PP, from top to bottom this mouthpiece played as well or better than almost anything I've tried. It took all the air I could give it and didn't choke up on me.
All that being said the Kali is just the wrong model for me. Brighter sound than I currently want. Amma maybe? This is a superb playing mouthpiece but I need something a little darker.
Thanks to Theo and Matt for letting all of us try out their mouthpieces.
pneumasax
07-16-2009, 08:41 PM
I received the Kali tenor mp around the same time I received the Durga bari mp to try out. It got a little crazy around here for a while. I'll post about the Durga bari mp in another thread.
First of all, just absolutely stunning craftsmanship. This mouthpiece looked as good as it played. I used a #3 Java Red on the mouthpiece. The first thing I noticed was how quick the response is with this mouthpiece. Easily as fast as any of the Guardalas I have owned. Articulation was no problem. I was a little surprised the low end responded as well as it did. The Kali has a fairly high baffle but the low end responded as easily as the rest of the horn. From FF to PP, from top to bottom this mouthpiece played as well or better than almost anything I've tried. It took all the air I could give it and didn't choke up on me.
All that being said the Kali is just the wrong model for me. Brighter sound than I currently want. Amma maybe? This is a superb playing mouthpiece but I need something a little darker.
The AMMA is darker and IMHO more "rounder" sounding and projects VERY well. The bottom to the altissimo comes out very well from ppp (subtone) to FFF.
My biggest problem is that I purchased both of them.:shock:
Brian
07-16-2009, 09:28 PM
I'm delinquent in posting my review as I had the Kali a few people ago. I really enjoyed playing this piece. All the visual quality aspects that have been stated here are applicable. I won't belabor them.
I found the Kali to be a bit more resistant than what I am used to. I play a Ponzol M2 120 and a Lawton 9 BB (also a 120). The Lawton is a little more resistant than the Ponzol, and the Kali was just slightly more than the Lawton. The cool thing was that though it was more resistant, it was extremely easy to control. EXTREMELY easy to play evenly. It responded and articulated fantastically, after getting used to the support pressure. Low end to high end was the same .... very even and easy to control.
Sound wise, it was a mixed bag for me. I enjoyed it because it was unique. The soundclips on the website are accurate. For contemporary pop and R&B it is a great sound, especially when played loud or amplified. When I hear this type of sound on recordings, I always think how I would love to play sounding like that ... and this was getting me there. But when I played the type of music that I typically play, which is more jazz and jazz ballads in small combo settings, I found the sound to be more 'fragile' than my other pieces. The highs were singing and searing, and I loved that .... but I missed the core sound and felt that my acoustic sound was a bit to empty or shrill compared to my other pieces (which are also on the bright side of the spectrum).
I will say this, that I would love to have this piece for 30 days to play with, as the more I played it in the few days I had the more I got into the piece and found more substance. From description, it sounds like maybe one of Theo's other pieces would be more my liking. From my experience with this one, there would be no question that it would be worth the investigation process because this piece plays wonderfully over the whole tenor. Just finding the right variation of tonal balance for me, would make it perfect.
Also, I have to say the the Liberty Lig concept is amazingly affective. I thought it was going to be more of a gimmick thing ... but was I ever surprised. I prefer more focused tenor tones, so the top setting was my favorite, with the default second position close behind. But the difference between the positions was very defined. More difference than I have experienced with any other lig / M'piece combo. I thought that the whole lig assembly range was fairly low on the reed to begin with, so it doesn't surprise me that I preferred #1.
odsum25
07-19-2009, 07:08 PM
Here are my thoughts.
First off, I'll echo the previous thoughts about the level of craftsmanship on these pieces. They are truly stunning from a visual perspective.
Theo's pieces, as expected, play just as wonderfully as they look. The response is incredibly quick at all dynamic levels. The sounds is incredibly even throughout the range of the horn and into the altissimo. I played around with a few different reeds and had the most success with RJS 3S and Roberto's 3M.
The Liberty ligature is far more interesting than I expected. I found that the third notch worked best for me. The design holds the reed in place effectively while still allowing the it to vibrate freely.
The Kali's tone, while on the brighter side of the spectrum, is incredibly even throughout the horn. It is possible to reign it in enough to play with a more "traditional" jazz sound, but I think it really shines in an amplified horn section situation. I played it on a Tejano gig in a 4 piece horn section and it performed really well.
This is a great piece, but I think the Amma or Gaia would be a better fit for me. I recently signed up for the Gaia passaround, so it will be very interesting to compare.
Matt was just knocking on my door wondering where the Kali is. I went back and see I am suppose to move it on in five days. It's here, and am getting it out to next-on-the-list this week. Apologies for my oversight and thanks to Matt for followup.
I agree that Theo's and Pro CNC's finishing is extraordinary, just like the Amma I bought back in 07 or was that 06? and still own. Some visiting anthropologist from the Pleiades Star system will find one of these and instantly enshrine it as an extraordinary object.
But for a hiatus, I have been playing a Mouthpiece Cafe Jerry Bergonzi Slant (HR) for the last 12 months, and for 4-months before that one of two Amma's I got from Theo. Before that a bunch of other pieces, but I try to stay with one piece for at least 4-months and not jump around. Playing wise, anyway, the bottom end of both the Kali and the Amma pieces play like liquid amber. Beautiful with a round brightness that is alluring. The ligature is great, once I dialed in the placement (2nd or 3rd position). I loved not having to take it off, but found the table cap not doubling as a reed cap to be a nuisance. Both this Kali and my Amma have quick response and even temperment up through the ranges. Great voices. I did not, however try RJS reeds.
Since I am the only one mentioning the following, I assume it's my embouchure because I have the same trouble with the Kali I have had right along with my Amma: it's impertinent occasional squeaks. Not squeals, but chirps. Switching from Vandoren Java #3 and #2.5's to Vandoren V16 #3's helped a lot, but the squeaks just lie in wait to leap out.
That problem doesn't exist with my other pieces: Dukoff Hollywood reworked by Bob Carpenter, Lawton 7*B, Vandoren V16's T75 and T95, a couple of Link Tone Masters, Oleg Maestro, a Jody DV 7*, and a bunch of other metals plus a ton of HR.
When the Kali plays it plays marvelously, until it chirps. So my conclusion is that the geometry and airstream engineering just do not mix with me and my mouth -- at least this year. Maybe I need another 30 years of embouchure development. Dunno. I really tried to like this piece, and now think after I ship the Kali on, I'll be putting the Amma up for sale too (It will go on SOTW first).
I retain great admiration for Theo's execution, marketing, and his astonishingly beautiful pieces, and sadly have to admit they're not for me and move on. Thanks Matt for the opportunity.
pneumasax
08-04-2009, 12:52 PM
Matt was just knocking on my door wondering where the Kali is. I went back and see I am suppose to move it on in five days. It's here, and am getting it out to next-on-the-list this week. Apologies for my oversight and thanks to Matt for followup.
I agree that Theo's and Pro CNC's finishing is extraordinary, just like the Amma I bought back in 07 or was that 06? and still own. Some visiting anthropologist from the Pleiades Star system will find one of these and instantly enshrine it as an extraordinary object.
But for a hiatus, I have been playing a Mouthpiece Cafe Jerry Bergonzi Slant (HR) for the last 12 months, and for 4-months before that one of two Amma's I got from Theo. Before that a bunch of other pieces, but I try to stay with one piece for at least 4-months and not jump around. Playing wise, anyway, the bottom end of both the Kali and the Amma pieces play like liquid amber. Beautiful with a round brightness that is alluring. The ligature is great, once I dialed in the placement (2nd or 3rd position). I loved not having to take it off, but found the table cap not doubling as a reed cap to be a nuisance. Both this Kali and my Amma have quick response and even temperment up through the ranges. Great voices. I did not, however try RJS reeds.
Since I am the only one mentioning the following, I assume it's my embouchure because I have the same trouble with the Kali I have had right along with my Amma: it's impertinent occasional squeaks. Not squeals, but chirps. Switching from Vandoren Java #3 and #2.5's to Vandoren V16 #3's helped a lot, but the squeaks just lie in wait to leap out.
That problem doesn't exist with my other pieces: Dukoff Hollywood reworked by Bob Carpenter, Lawton 7*B, Vandoren V16's T75 and T95, a couple of Link Tone Masters, Oleg Maestro, a Jody DV 7*, and a bunch of other metals plus a ton of HR.
When the Kali plays it plays marvelously, until it chirps. So my conclusion is that the geometry and airstream engineering just do not mix with me and my mouth -- at least this year. Maybe I need another 30 years of embouchure development. Dunno. I really tried to like this piece, and now think after I ship the Kali on, I'll be putting the Amma up for sale too (It will go on SOTW first).
I retain great admiration for Theo's execution, marketing, and his astonishingly beautiful pieces, and sadly have to admit they're not for me and move on. Thanks Matt for the opportunity.
The Kali and the Amma chirp for me in the beginning. I discovered I could not use reeds that I was using my other mouthpiece. The facing curves did not allow that "easy" transition from mouthpiece to other as far as my reeds were concerned. At least that's what I concluded. :?
The Kali and the Amma chirp for me in the beginning. I discovered I could not use reeds that I was using my other mouthpiece. The facing curves did not allow that "easy" transition from mouthpiece to other as far as my reeds were concerned. At least that's what I concluded. :?
Questions:
Are you chirp free now?
What reeds are you using on Theo's pieces?
pneumasax
08-04-2009, 05:18 PM
The Kali and the Amma chirp for me in the beginning. I discovered I could not use reeds that I was using my other mouthpiece. The facing curves did not allow that "easy" transition from mouthpiece to other as far as my reeds were concerned. At least that's what I concluded. :?
Questions:
Are you chirp free now?
What reeds are you using on Theo's pieces?
Yes I am. I'm using Lavoz M/MH, Vandoren ZZ #3, and Branchers 3 1/2.
Okay . . . dug out a box of 2.5 Opera reeds. Jeeeesh. NO SQUEAK! Gorgeous smooth voice in all registers.
Yes I am. I'm using Lavoz M/MH, Vandoren ZZ #3, and Branchers 3 1/2.
I think the Vandoren ZZ#3's are more flexible than the Java#3's and Brancher 3.5 are about a Java 3.
I went and tried the Brancher Opera 2.5's on my Amma. Same gorgeous result.
Okay, I'm not selling my Amma.
pneumasax
08-05-2009, 01:04 AM
Okay, I'm not selling my Amma.
LOL :D :D :D :D :D You're hooked now huh? LOL:D
Okay, I'm not selling my Amma.
LOL :D :D :D :D :D You're hooked now huh? LOL:D
Yep, hook, line, and ligature. Still hate the cap.
pneumasax
08-05-2009, 02:54 PM
Okay, I'm not selling my Amma.
LOL :D :D :D :D :D You're hooked now huh? LOL:D
Yep, hook, line, and ligature. Still hate the cap.
Yeah the cap is an issue - small one but an issue. Although I do understand the concept. I have a few of the Smart Caps he refers to on his site and they work fine. I was always concerned about my reeds drying out in certain settings.
trahansax
08-08-2009, 06:12 AM
I just tried out the Kali. The mouthpiece is made beautifully, and the packaging is great. I especially liked the case. I just could not find myself liking this mouthpiece enough to change my current set up. Everything everyone else has said has been true. It plays nice in all registers, it's very responsive. But for me, and only for me, it lacked a certain bit of bite that you would expect from a high baffle mouthpiece. I'm sure that this will make a great piece for someone, but for now I will stick to my Jody Jazz pieces.
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