Conn 12M

[JaRcKoToPp]

I heard that Conn 12Ms are really good. I also heard that the span of the 12M lasted many many decades. My question is this: What are the best serial numbers for 12Ms?

[Andrew]

This goes for ANY horn. TRY THEM. You could have a Mark VI in Brecker's "serial range" but it could completely suck compared to the very last VI ever made. Same goes w/the 12M and whatever other horn. If it plays, it plays. If not, move on.

[Bootman]

You bet the Conn 12M is great. The transitional models are the most sought after but any from the 200K -250K serial range.

[JaRcKoToPp]

Hm...
take a look at these two:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2518265797
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2517961564

Do you think these will be any good? The first one's old...I think pre-12M, and the other ones too new, i think.

Bootman - Where would i find a bari from the tranny era?

Thanks, y'all,
JaRcKotOPp

[Bootman]

The Chu 189 model is the pick but it will need a lot of work inthe S bend area as it is very obviously bent and mangled. A Tranny bari is in the 240K range of Conn Baritones, they have RH bell keys and simple no art deco and no naked lady engraving.

I would suggest that you keep looking as neither of these two are good enough, one is far too late and the other doesn't look as good as the add would have you believe it is. Be very cautious when buying a Conn bari because they cost a lot to repair. trust me on this, I have had two fully rebuilt.

[JaRcKoToPp]

Bootman - Thanks a bunch. I hope I'll come across a tranny 12M soon. Wish me luck! :D

Signing off,
Just Another Resource Consuming Kid On This Overpopulated Planet

[OnyxSax]

When you find one...you'll be glad you did! There are few forces on this planet capable of the "shock and awe" of a well-maintained Conn Bari going full tilt.

I can second Bootman on the expense involved in rebuilding Conn Baris. Luckily, I bought mine cheap and played it for 12 years before rebuilding it. The restoration was done at VintageSax. When Gayle first received the horn, she was quite amazed that the horn could play at all...let alone be a killer horn. The horn is simply unbelievable after the restoration was done.

[JaRcKoToPp]

Hmm...

How bout this one?

http://www.usahorn.com/baritone/used/conn228624.html

Thanks, y'all
JaRcKoToPp

[Bootman]

It's relacquered.

[Gandalfe]

Bootman, my son wants a Selmer bari. I purchased a Yani for him and he doesn't like it. BTW, I think the Yani is a solid instrument. I have considered get him some fixer up Selmer bari's but I don't have a feel for how much it would cost to have a good repairman restore one.

What are the prices to restore a used bari with say ~35% lacquer and some other generic repairs such as bent rods and a complete pad job? We play in community bands and a jazz band, so we are not pros. But we take loving care of our instruments. So we'd want to do it right.

Thanks!

[Gandalfe]

I'm gonna move this to a top-level request because I suspect there are others that would like to hear Bootman and others answers who might not check out a Conn post.

[JaRcKoToPp]

oh. crud.

[JaRcKoToPp]

Oh, and personally, I like Yani baris alot (tho i'm not quite sure why that post ended up here...) I played the B901, and it is simply amazing. Great tone, sturdy keywork, and really cool looking low a mechanism. I can play a ppp low A on that thing. I also heard that Selmers Super Action 80 and 80 II are not all that good...dunno, though, cuz i never played an SA 80 II myself. That's just what my sax teacher and a sax repair guy told me. If i can't find a good 12M, i'll probably get a yani...

Crud. A relacuqer... :cry:

[Bootman]

Check out a Keilwerth too.

[Bergertone]

I had a friend call me this past Friday, he wants to sell his 12M, I have not seen it yet. He has had work done on it, knowing this guy its in great shape. It has been relaqued along time ago? I may have it mid week. If anybody might be interested I can take picts and send them when I get it. It would ship from Michigan.

bergertone@prodigy.net

[Bootman]

Please send me some pics too.

[super20dan]

i just bought an old 12m (ex-school horn) to use for bar gigs as my prescious super20 got dented 2 gigs in a row! its a 1968 model according to the charts.it will be ready for action as soon as i get the neck back from being extended.(so i can use high baff-mpc)

[danm]

Hey Super20dan do you want to sell that Vito that you have yet? Please keep me in mind if you do..DAN

[super20dan]

damn -i have bad news about the vito. the owner did not pack it right and ups destroyed it!!! this is why i chose to keep the conn 12m .i would have much rather have had the vito .i am just sick over this and its sad to see a fine horn destroyed! i am fighting to get my money back . too bad because the horn had just been repaded too. would have been a great horn. sometimes deals that are too good to be true turn out to be just that!

[danm]

Man Super bad news. :cry: I have had the same thing happen to me having an alto shipped 100 miles to me that they destroyed also. Real sorry to hear that. I'm still looking!..Dan

[Bootman]

The same thing has happened to me with every Baritone I have ever bought from th US.

[Andrew]

Super,

Did you get your money back? I assume that it was UPS's fault. A friend of mine is in this exact situation w/UPS. They destroyed her Bari that she bought from someone. We tried it out before she ended up buying it, but she didn't have all the money which is why she had to have it shipped to her. It was too bad b/c that bari was a REALLY nice horn...Now it's mangled and bent to hell.

Andrew

[JPrince]

I guess I got lucky then. I had my Martin Bari shipped from PA to Oklahoma, and it arrived okay. (It had a few more dents than wheat I saw when I looked at the pics to buy it, but it was bent or anything). I've had 2 saxes shipped UPS, the Tenor undamaged and the Bari very minor (purely cosmetic) damage, if any.

[super20dan]

the owner of the horn has promosed me that i will get my money back ...but i am still waiting. the conn i bought arrived from ups shipped just in its case! yet it arrived undamaged . go figure!

[Bootman]

Super,
You really need to get an earlier model Conn 12M, the later ones really are only a shadow of the Transitional and Chu models.

[super20dan]

bootman -i realise the older 12m s are the one to get .i have played one the same vintage as gerry mulligans and it is indeed a vastly superiour horn to the newer ones . i needed a beater bari as i am doing bar gigs again and didnt want to trash a vintage insterment. sort of my own version of a human shield. playing some pretty rough places. this exschool horn should do o.k alought it doesnt like any of my mpcs except the rico metalite. i may finally get a quantum .

[Bear]

I gave up on finding an older 12M and went with a newer one, 14m actually. It did OK, but on the losing end, when put up against Onyxsax's Chu. But, I can't help but think that if a horn has a 12M bore then it should, pretty much, sound like a 12M. Thus, maybe the difference between the older and newer 12Ms (and 14M) is due to the resonators - metal vs. plastic. It seems to be the only major (technically sonic-wise) difference. Thoughts?

Super20dan - you have a conn now? whazzup wit dat? BTW I got to play a King bari, ser. no. 560,XXX range. Was that a good King vintage? It was a nice sounding horn. I played it, back and forth against the 14M, for about 2 hours at practice to check it out for a friend. I did notice that the King really vibrates when its played.

[super20dan]

i got the conn to use as a beater. my super20 suffered damage the first 2 gigs i did with it at these bars. i will not have it wrecked playing in crowded bars etc so i got the vito but it got destroyed by ups so i got the conn. it doesnt even start to compare to the super20! but it plays and i could care less what happens to it. funny thing is i originally bought the king back in the 80,s to use as a beater so my selmer wouldnt get beatup but its now so valuable (and not to mention the BEST bari i have ever played ) that it would be criminal to use it for bar gigs.all this has cost me a lot of money but i feel its worth it . i got the conn at a very good price ($600)but i am still fighting ups to get my money back for the vito

[Bootman]

Your King should outplay a late Conn, the difference between a late and early Conn is huge. A pre WWII that has been rebuilt will knock you out, it will cost a small fortune to get it rebuilt but it is worth every penny. It is getting very hard to find an old Conn that hasn't been butchered by bad techs over the years.

[Bear]

Hi Bootman and super20dan. My nick was formerly Screech. Let me throw out some thoughts on this. First, the new vs. old bari. I tried my 2000 14M (essentially a 12M w/o forked Eb) against Onyxsax's Chu at a sax gathering. Onyxsax and I switched from one to the other in front of 2 or 3 others. The aim was to discern a difference obviously. No one spoke after the first round. We had to repeat the trial a few times to get a feel for it. That's how subtle the difference was. I agreed with the outcome. The Chu could speak softer, and louder, and was more complex. This jibes with other's observations on differences between a horn with and without metal resonators. Or, maybe its just the way it is, I don't know. But it was pretty close. Thus, I wouldn't give up on the newer Conns. Onyxsax's Chu is mint BTW and would likely beat out many other 12Ms.

I got a chance to play a King, not a Super 20, but the ser. no. was around 550 or 560,XXX if memory serves. It sounded pretty good. Left hand keywork was a bit cramped for me. OK Dan, here's the important part. The sensation that I got from playing the thing was that the horn vibrated a lot giving the impression to the player that it was really thumping. I asked the guy next to me (tenor guy) if it was really loud (I thought it was freaky loud) but he said no. Maybe he was hard of hearing I dunno. This is not a scientific test, just my opinion from playing the King for a few hours. I liked it.

[Bear]

super20dan: we're all different obviously and what works for one might not work for others. I seem to have the opposite situation with tuning baris than you - I seem to have to push them way in on the cork to get them in tune... go figure.