metal link bari 6 or 6*?

[justbari]

I'm looking to buy a large chambered mouthpiece. I'm currently using a metal Berg 100/2 with a pretty small chamber on a student bari horn from the 50s (I use RicoRoyal 3 or LaVoz medhard). The 6* link is .105 and the 6 is .100. I'd like to move up to the .105. Can anyone tell me if it will be that much harder to play than a .100? Unfortunately I can't play test the mouthpieces....

thanks

[MojoBari]

Going from .100" to .105" is a small step. About the same or less than moving up 1/2 strength in reed. Go for it!

[cd]

Play testing is highly recommended. Either could be the better one but you'll never know without trying both.

[fusionjazzmadman]

If your able to test the mouthpiece before you buy it, try testing it with a softer reed, it will make it easier to play an open mouthpice and might just give you the tone you want.

[colibri]

The tip opening isn't the only thing that determines the strength of reed for the player. A mouthpiece with a longer facing can also add resistance, thus a softer reed has to be used.

A .100 opening for a bari mouthpiece seems quite small. Perhaps you could try something around .115 - .120 just for the heck of it.

[MojoBari]

Usually, the longer facing lowers resistance (unless it gets so long it is into the vamp of the reed). Short facings have more resistance. Imagine trying to bend the reed to a .100" tip closure over a short facing vs a long one. Its a small radius vs larger radius thing.

[colibri]

I'm not sure exactly how to put this in words, but the way I understand it, longer facing adds resistance because more of the reed vibrates, and it takes more muscles to push the reed up to the facing. The Morgans have long facings and they play with more resistance than other pieces with the same opening (like a Meyer 7 and a Morgan 7).

[MojoBari]

A shorter facing is like a lever arm with short distance to the fulcrum. Short facings tend to favor high note response and long facings the low notes. A short facing .90 piece can play with same resistance as a long facing .105" piece.

If you do not take a lot of mouthpiece in with your embouchure, you can pinch the long facing closed some and it will play with less resistance. But now you are closing off the tip opening from say .105" to .095".

Unless you have the gages to measure the facing curves, it is difficult to determine why one piece plays with more resistance than the others. Its difficult enough with the gages. You can get an idea of facing lengths by inserting a business or playing card between your reed and mouthpiece and observing how far it goes without forcing it. But this does not tell you how the lay is constructed. Some lays measure long but the rest of the curve is not.

[colibri]

http://www.mouthpieceheaven.com/content/facing-curves.htm

[MojoBari]

I've read Theo's site before and never concluded that he thinks short facings play with less resistance than long facings with the same tip opening. Reading it carefully, I can see where one might. Theo may even believe it, but I'm not sure he does. It still would not change my mind. I stand by my experiance and physical explaination.

I think he just stated that high notes are easier to play and control with a short facing. He did not say they play with less resistance. You can argue that high notes are easier to play and control with a more resistant set-up.

I have taken short facings and have lengthened them without changing the tip opening. They get easier to start a tone (in the mid to low range for sure). I need to use a harder reed to get back to the same resistance they had when they were short. I have not noticed that high notes are more difficult, but they may be for some players.

[colibri]

I think he just stated that high notes are easier to play and control with a short facing. He did not say they play with less resistance.

This is quoted directly from the web site:

"Because more of the thick part of the reed is now vibrating, there is more resistance in the sound as well, and it can actually make the mouthpiece feel like a larger tip opening than it actually is. A lot of people who like a foofy, vintage and reedy sound love long facing curves."

I'm not sure what short facings do, because I never had a mouthpiece with a short facing and I favour long facings. However in my experience with a Meyer 7M (measured exactly at .80 with a medium facing) and Morgan 7M, the Morgan had to be played with a much softer reed.

[selmer33]

I honestly would never buy a mouthpiece without playing it. Even typically great mouthpieces will have slight faults, or play slightly different. When you play test, you can pick the mouthpiece that is perfect for you. Good luck!

Doug

By the way,I play a Couf 6 on bari with Rico Jazz #5 reeds...I recommend harder reeds on bari as well. For classical alto, I play a vandoren 3 1/2, but on bari, I always played a 4.

[MojoBari]

Usually, the longer facing lowers resistance (unless it gets so long it is into the vamp of the reed).

In this case air leaks from under the reed. It is too thick to curve against the facing. The reed/mouthpiece would fail the seal test. I would call this extra long or too long. It would sound "foofy" and take more air, like a larger tip, due to the leaking. (I say you can sound foofy enough on a long facing, that does not leak, and enjoy less resistance).

If this is what you think Theo means, then I'm in agreement. If not, we dissagree.

[colibri]

What measurements would you consider the facing to be too long? Yes, if the facing is long enough that air leaks under the reed, it would add resistance. That is the same as having a facing that is way off or unflat table.

[MojoBari]

Using a .0015" feeler and a glass gage, you can go up to 52-55 (26-27.5mm) on tenor. I dont hear/feel any advantage going beyond 52. I had a nice playing RPC 150 that went to 60, but it was faced to play with a bari sax reed. Some brands of tenor reeds will leak significantly at 60.

[Mike Ruhl]

The short facing emphasizes the upper register, making it respond easier. This is partially due to the fact that only the forward, thinner, portion of the reed is vibrating. Hence, there is also less resistance or back pressure when playing as well.I understand what Theo is saying here, but I think his use of the word "resistance" is a little confusing. I think what he's trying to express is that it's easier to get a reed started vibrating with a shorter facing curve, because "only the forward, thinner, portion of the reed is vibrating". However, as you increase the airstream and attempt to play louder, you encounter the physical resistance of trying to make a shorter section of the reed vibrate faster. You quickly hit the point beyond which the reed can vibrate no faster with a short facing curve. I've had one tenor mouthpiece that had a short facing curve: an old Vanodren 99. It was easier to play at lower dynamic levels, but it quickly became hard to control at louder dynamics.