Recent Keilwerth Bass on Ebay

[Ritmoman]

Hello, am new to the forum, just joined to tell you I bought the $8500 Keilwerth on Ebay last month! I had only played a bass once before, tried an Orpheo and returned it for lack of precision in build and assembly. The Keilwerth is very nicely made sax. The one I got was pretty much as advertised, "unplayed', not new.
I suspect it is 10 years old max, has the neck receiver on the last curve, not part of the neck as the latest model, and 3 strap rings, and support peg set up which the newest model doesn't seem to have. Well for $8500 there was a fly in the ointment! The sax was packed by a total nitwit for shipment. This was after I had asked how it was going to be shipped and was told that it would be double boxed by the seller. It arrived with a layer of cardboard and some bubble wrap around the case, with a slot for the handle open, plus the neck and the support peg were loose in the case!!!! The low Eb key and guard were pushed into the horn, trapping the key with significant dents to the guard supports. The second support to the outside, descending upper stack tube, was dented some and octave mechanism was jammed. Noted one small ding to upper bow and some minor scratches. I was struck by the beauty of the horn and heartbroken over the damage.
I contacted the seller. He apparently was an agent in the transaction, and did not personally pack the horn. Was willing to work with me and voluntarily refunded me $300(his profit?). I told him ok, but felt the repairs would be much more than that. I am curious if Saxtek, who earlier had stated that he had gotten photos from the seller, would know if the photos show the Eb key and guard intact. That would indicate the damage happened in shipping. It took a good bump to cause the damage. I have a suspicion the damage could have occured prior to the sale, the sax supposedly being liquidated from a defunct music store, and that would be plausible reason why the sax never sold. The ebay photos were very poor, I was scared for a moment it was baritone! That could have been on purpose.
Either way, I got the damage repaired, by a skilled local tech for less than $300. The Eb key guard repair is noticeable, had to heat the metal to remove the dent without cracking, some discoloration, little distortion. And the stack repair is pretty much covered up by rods etc. I feel even with the problems I got a good deal! I'm realizing the bass sax requires some dedicated practice to have a smooth tone throughout the register, but not a chore! The case is interestingly designed. The horn rests primarily on the bell and the upper bow when upright on the wheels. I'm not sure how smart that is. And the neck receiver is quite close to the side and bottom of the case, very susceptible to impact! I noticed a groove in the lining from the neck screw. I plan to leave the screw out when the horn is in the case. This situation might explain why the newer Keilwerths have the bow as part of the neck. And I will be very careful moving this horn around. No occasion to yet! And last but not least, the sax came with a brand new Selmer C* bass mpc with cap and ligature. I'm pretty sure I'm the first to play this horn! I had been lusting after a bass for a few years, I know I'm sort of an idiot as far as Ebay is concerned, but I'm happy! Appreciate any comments and thankful for the enthusiasm and expertise! Alec

[saxtek]

I don't remember getting photos from the seller of the Keilwerth. Shipping these big horns is always a problem. When I sold my Conn stencil bass a while ago I insisted on the buyer picking it up in person. He did, and we're both happy.

No way to tell whether damage occurred before or after shipping, but I never saw a bass sax case I would trust to a shipper except for the one from Eppelsheim, and he ships horns in a massive chipboard box. Selmer bass sax cases are even worse than Keilwerth, with virtually no protection for the neck receiver.

If you got the horn going for less than your refund, you did well.

[Ritmoman]

Thanks for your response. I think it may have been you that wrote about shipping horns on the bass sax cooperative forum. I read your information after the deal was in motion, sort of dreading what might happen. You were right on all counts. The damage was done and the horn plays fine and looks real good. BTW it was saxplayer1004 who mentioned pictures of the horn. My mistake. Alec

[SaxPlayer1004]

I remember the pix, although the computer that has them is currently packed because I'm in the process of moving out of the dorm. There was no visible damage in the pictures, although I can't recall how much detail they went into, I'll try to find them again in a few days when I'm home

[TomCoffey]

I think this falls into "all's well that ends well." Bass saxes are big horns, and brass is a soft metal. It does not take much to do some damage. Fortunately, our techs are there when we need them.
I bought Saxtek's Conn stencil a couple of years ago and rented a van to drive it home from Florida to Cleveland. So far, it remains in almost pristine condition. I am even more careful with it than with my string bass when I leave the house, though.
Congratulations on what sounds like a great horn!

[rhysonsax]

I bought a special Keilwerth bass from eBay in late 2006. It was reviewed by Steve Howard and there are some pics: http://www.shwoodwind.co.uk/Reviews/Saxes/Bari/Keilwerth_SX90_special_bass.htm

My horn is hard to balance, possibly because of the extra metal of the low A.

I am interested in your bass for its three strap rings and the floor peg. Any chance of pics of your new beast ?

Rhys

[Ritmoman]

Hello all, thanks for the comments. I will post some photos or a link in the next week. Haven't taken any yet. I had read the review of the low A Keilwerth and found it very interesting. That horn may have changed how the regular Keilwerth bass has the neck attached. It does eliminate the part of the horn most vulnerable to impact to the side of the case. I'll bet more than one upper stack has been bent because of the case design. When I bought the horn I wasn't aware it had a peg setup. The pictures I'd seen were of more recently made horns. The peg is anchored in two places, on the left side of the lower main stack, just above the bow, and at the clamp from the stack to bow. The peg is grooved every 1/2" so a beveled screw on the lower attachment prevents slipping. The arrangement provides a nice center of gravity, and is comfortable to play sitting down. I've noticed on some Chinese horns and the Selmer bass, the pegs are attached at the bottom joint, at the front of the bell with just one attachment point. This seems less balanced and more stressful to the horn. But I also feel the peg is an accident waiting to happen, a nice lever if inappropriately applied!! Alec