Flute, the evilest of instruments

[jonnyc]

Hmmm, hard to get softer/ louder on these things isn't it!
I may have to up my strict regime of at least 10 mins practice a week if I carry on making such poor progress!

[Amy]

I agree! I hate playing dynamics on the flute! One exercise I have found helpful though, is to play long tones starting soft and crescendoing and vice versa. I am slowly improving, slowly being the operative word! :?

[Bootman]

It is just practise and lots of air. It takes a long time to get a good sound on a flute. It isn't pick it up and a month or so later you're getting a great sound. It takes years.

Anyway, keep at it, learn how to get the air working and have soem lessons, you can do it.

[husky1125]

Don't feel bad about not getting dynamics down on the flute. I have played it for about 5 years and still dont have them down. Dont have much problem with the "middle" notes, but it is the low and high ones that give me trouble. Cant play low ones loud and high ones soft. I'm working on it though.

[bpimentel]

The problem of low notes always being soft and high ones always being loud is a common one. The usual reason is that the flutist is overblowing to the high register by literally blowing harder.

The register change should be accomplished primarily by changing the size of the aperture (opening in the lips)--it should be smaller for the high register and larger for the low register. Check yourself in a mirror. Or try slurring from a low G at forte up an octave to G at piano. If you're getting the octave jump by blowing harder, you can't do it! Blowing harder = louder.

This issue can be easily straightened out with a few lessons from a good teacher and some diligent practice. My flute playing improved 100% in my first lesson. Best $20 I ever spent, flutewise.

[jonnyc]

On the topic of flute lessons, I paid about 100 quid all in all to stand in someones front room with my finger under my lips blowing kisses at their mirror.
At the end of this exciting process , it was decided my lips were the wrong shape.
Teachers are easy to find, but good teachers - not so easy!

[Gordon (NZ)]

...Blowing harder = louder.
....
Not necessarily true. To play softly up high, you need to keep high air speed (which necessitates blowing harder) but less flow of air (achieved by pressing lips slightly together to shrink the lip aperture) while maintaining focus (like a garden hose nozzle, or oxy-acetylene flame nozzle) of the airstream by maintaining a long airway between the lips (by NOT pulling the lips tight around the teeth, or over-smiling). The long windway means more air friction, which means even harder blowing is required to maintain good speed in the airstream. It is the SPEED that gets you into the top octave.

Although you blow harder for the top octave, you actually use a lot less air, because of the small aperture between the lips.

In electrical terms, think high voltage (pressure), low current (flow) for high notes. For low notes, lower voltage, higher current. :-)

IMH(analytical)O. It is all to do with fluid dynamics.

[Gordon (NZ)]

On the topic of flute lessons, I paid about 100 quid all in all to stand in someones front room with my finger under my lips blowing kisses at their mirror.
At the end of this exciting process , it was decided my lips were the wrong shape.
Teachers are easy to find, but good teachers - not so easy!

What a waste of money!

Here is the photo evidence that all manner of peculiar shaped lips can make professional flute players. It is just a matter of working around the peculiarities. Of 400 beginners I started off, NONE had unsuitable lips.

Any association of flute embouchure with a kisses embouchure is quite, quite wrong!

[rozhado]

A good concept for dynamic control in all registers is to think of opening shape of emboucher, speed of air, and jaw position.
The shape of the the opening of the embouchure varies upon the register you are playing in. For example, in the low register, the shape should appear to be oval (using smile muscles), then relaxing these muscles as you ascend into the upper registers. At the top registers, the opening should appear to be almost circular (use a mirror to check).
Air speed should be constant from low to high registers; meaning the tone should be full and homogenous.
Dynamics is approached by jaw position. Extend the jaw almost mirroring an underbite in achieving pp tomp; shift back into a normal position for mf to f; and continue to shift the jaw back and downward for f to fff.
Think of these 3 concepts in playing long tones. Your intonation and pitch will become constant, and your tone quality will improve. :)
I majored in flute performance, but sax playing is my bread and butter. Remember, the flute is not a sax.

[Gordon (NZ)]

Hmmm. IMHO:

That may have been what you were taught, and you may have come to associate other APPROPRIATE body actions with these concepts, but I find much of it, as it stands, highly questionable.

E.g. I can easily play a low note with slow air speed. It is IMPOSSIBLE to play a high note with low air speed. Many people confuse air SPEED with air FLOW.

And moving the jaw.... Sure, it alters the manner of lip support, and lip position, but it is not necessary. It is like moving your whole body to shift a pencil on a page, rather than just moving your fingers. There are heaps of very accomplished players, who play soft/loud notes without moving their jaw. What determines the volume is the quantity of energy changed from the pressure within your lungs, to the vibration within the flute's air column. Forward/back position of the jaw does not affect this transfer of energy. Rather it affects the ANGLE of the airstream, which affects pitch (although it is not the only factor affecting pitch). It is the speed and cross-sectional area of the airstream that affect the energy transfered, barring other limiting factors such as air turbulence, and inappropriate direction.

[rozhado]

Without the condescending attitude, I find your comments interesting. Jaw movement is slight, very negligable. This movement controls Air quantity, not quality; speed is constant. Slow air speed=loss of resonance. Angle of air stream, of course affects pitch; however, pitch adjustment becomes natural when using just intonation. Yes, this technique was taught to me not by one, but by several top players in the L.A. area, Barcellona, Detullio, Newton. ect. If it works for them, they get the calls, then it works for me.
With respect, I feel all contributions are for everyone's benefit, and if knowledge is shared without insuation, the better. :D

[Gordon (NZ)]

I think that 'condescendingness', in a forum situation without the benefit of tone of voice, and facial expression, is largely in the mind of the beholder.

I was merely expressing MHO (as I stated), based on a fair bit of quality teaching, highly analytical approach to playing, significant playing experience, and a reasonable knowledge of the facts of the dynamics of fluid flow.

as for considering rather different perspectives presented, it is up to the reader to decide where they perceive the truth to lie. That should not be a problem for any contributor, or have I missed something?

[Ivy]

I'm with rozhado on this. The jaw movement is very very slight and almost subconscious when playing from a low note to a high note (2 octaves or more).

Gordon's tone is a bit abrasive- if somebody talked to me this way in person I'd probably ignore the person or hit them on the jaw. That's big time jaw movement for him.

[Gordon (NZ)]

Now that's VERY abrasive!
Personally, I am a gentle soul, who would never hit anybody.

Could it be true that some people perceive ANY view that is different from their own as 'abrasive'?

Could it be that such labelling is a subtle but ruthlessly abrasive tool, ingtended to put down the proponent of a different view, to avoid rationally discussing the CONTENT of that alternative view?

Just wondering.

[rozhado]

Ivy, I see that you're up in the Bay area. I hope work is good for you up there. :D
There are many approaches in playing any instrument. We all use the available resources (teachers, instruments, ect.) in achieving the our fullest potential. Flute playing, in particular, has several different schools of thought. :roll: I don't believe there is a wrong or right method in performance; only is the performance crediable.
I believe we all bring valuable info to the "table". I've gained what little information I have from 20 years of being a professional and credentialed teacher.
The French/American school of Flute performance advocates many of the ideas I have written about, i.e. Moyse, Wummer, ect. It seems that in discussing the flute as opposed to sax, there is a sense of
defense-ness from many players here and abroad.
:cry: My hope is to go to a club or venue and see a sax players play with the same integrity on flute as on their primary instrument. Too often, we accept mediore ability on flute. As I tell my sax buddies, if I played sax as well as you played flute, I'd be yanked off the stage before the second chorus. :?