Time to RAMP UP the Malerne corner !!!!! [Archive]

View Full Version : Time to RAMP UP the Malerne corner !!!!!

JayeSF

04-29-2009, 07:29 PM

OK, I am being a wise#ss...but this has to be one of the most dormant mfr. sections on the entire forum......

So let's shake it up a little, folks.

I have over time acquired quite a few horns, of which I can confidently ID as Malernes. Mercury, Martel, Linton, and an Evette.

The Mercury, serial # 96XX. This is a project horn, I dunno if I'll ever finish getting it back together as, while renovating, I discovered a crease in the body of the bell which really bummed me out.

The second is a Linton....engraved, but only with a floral design...the space where the name would be is blank. This was purchased from Dr.LarryRoss, a sax purveyor on eBay, very experienced guy and he is certain it is a Malerne which was sent to Linton. This is likely confirmed by the fact that the original case has some reed holders which are stamped Linton. Serial # 254xx. One of those likely situations where the mfr. engraved the design, then left the name blank to be filled in by the distributor (who, in this case, never got around to it, I guess...)

If you see a Linton, it's likely a Malerne. HOWEVER...I made a bad mistake on one of my Lintons...I assumed it to be a Malerne, although I should have known better since it had a completely different low C spat, bellbrace, and pinky table form any other Malerne I had ever seen. Lo and behold, I discovered it was an Orsi while perusing the...Dolnet...section (!)

If Malerne ceased production in the mid-'70's, as written elsewhere, then it would appear Orsi took up producing the Linton horns around then.

The third tenor I have is engraved Robert Martel. serial 21xx.

Regarding stencil names....attenzione, ragazzi !!!....I based my initial assumption of the Orsi on the stencil name Linton...which was known to have contracted Malerne to do their horns. (That's a no-no...don't assume that 2 horns w/ the same stencil name were made by the same mfr.) I actually believe saxpics.com has made this mistake on some of their photos of horns which bear the same stencil name as Malerne stencils, yet do not share most of the typical French Malerne attributes (showng for example, a dramatically different pinky table and bell brace...both of which scream Italian-made).

Speaking of which...the same can be said for Getzen saxes. In other threads here, Getzens had been determined to be Italian horns built by A. Rampone. However, Forum member Al96 then posted pics of his Getzen tenor, serial 92xx, asking for an attribution. Imagine my surprise when I opened his pics ~ expecting to see a Rampone ~ yet there was a French Malerne staring back at me (last pic in my next post, below).

So, we know that some stencil names were Acme, Linton, Mercury, Artist or Artiste, Robert Martel, Lyceum, Croydon, Leggett, some Getzen, likely Grenadier, possibly Marathon (although some of these seem to be R & C's)...& some report Bordeaux (although I caution, on eFlay in the past few weeks there were 2 Bordeaux horns...a tenor which appeared it could likely be a Malerne, and an alto which was stamped Germany and did not seem to have Malerne attributes). Add to this the occasional Evette as well as the odd Buffet Crampon both of which were ID'd previously by others here as Malerne-produced ...and one must conclude that, apparently, Monseiur Malerne was a busy guy.....

So, unfortunately (but not atypically) we have some stencil names which seem to have been Malernes for a time being, but not always....oof...that always makes things easy, no ?

What ARE Malerne attributes ? based on my horns plus the (mostly correctly attributed) photos on saxpics. com, we can say that some are obvious but do not seem to carry through consistently.

1) The C spatula key: an elongated profile, have only seen this shape on these horns. This is the easy tell-tale sign; typically the most obvious give-away that it's a Malerne...it appears on almost all older-looking horns..

2) Pinky Table: it varies a tad, but I have provided pics of the 2 styles I have, showing very similar attributes. Note particularly the integral shape of the Bb key...

3) Mofo LONG rod holding together the upper stack. Not pictured, but all 3 of my horns have a single rod beginning below the neck collar and going on...forever....Supported by 6 posts on all 3 horns. An eBay Linton alto below also has this single long/upper stack rod design. My Evette also has the 6-post supported rod, as does my Croydon. So they appear on both altos and tenors.

The ones I have on my Tenors measure a rod length of 42, 44, and 44 cm's.

4) Generally lithe body with a wide flange to the bell.

5) Mechanism barrel directly aligned above centerline of uppermost key cup of upper stack...this armature winds under the left F palm key.

6) Sax Purveyor L. Ross also points out that the angle of the neck tenon in relation to the swoop of the neck is unique on a Malerne, it is a gentler angle than typical on most other necks. I concur with this observation (noted most prominently in the photo of the Martel in my second post directly below this one).

7) A rather fine round-wire bell brace, aesthetically appears light in its proportion.

8) More often than not, the serial # runs vertically along the back of the body tube.

Sheet metal guards appear to consistently be the style as pictured...however, I then learned that some Malernes have the square metal rod keyguards, which were not pictured on any saxes in saxpics. Using keyguards to ID a horn is always iffy, as they were probably pretty stock pieces which a lotta European mfr's used. But, I have noticed a number of Malernes which actually incorporate a Tulip profile into their B/Bb keyguards...and I have yet to see that particular design-flourish on a horn by another maker. See the 2 saxes in my second post below, as well...

Hope this helps someone....

JayeSF

04-29-2009, 07:31 PM

A collection of horn pics pic 3 tenors, one alto....all Malernes, but showing the kinds of keyguards...some of tube variety, some of the sheet. I'd say using keyguards to ID a horn is not the greatest idea, particularly if we are talking about vintage European makes....

1st pic is of the said un-engraved Linton.

The 2nd pic, the Alto ....is engraved Linton, Elkhart. Auction pics showed a similar pinky table, the 6-post supported upper stack rod, the elongated spatula at the C, and an identical alignment of the palm key mechanism above the upper stack. So, safe to say it's a Malerne.

3rd Pic is the Mercury.

The 4th pic is member Al96's Getzen tenor...displaying the C spat key, the bellbrace, and (partially obscured) the definite typical pinky table. Note the nice floral design in the bell keyguard...kind of a nice touch. Also, vertically inscribed serial # (not pictured but confirmed).

5th pic is of my Martel.

Maybe not all Malerne saxes will have all of these attributes...but given 5 to cross-reference each other, it is more to go on than just a couple of telltale signs, IMHO.

BTW...these are generally nice and mellow-sounding horns...smooth...not aggressive or edgy like the ol' American horns of the '30's-60's. They are strong in the midrange...they tend to blow balanced across their sound spectrum (i.e. their lows don't punch more, nor do their upper registers speak with more bite).

Also....YES...these are pro-calibre horns, it would be inaccurate to describe them as anything but.....

WinnSie

05-06-2009, 12:47 PM

Xanax

05-06-2009, 03:59 PM

Well ive got a Malerne stencil (EVETTE FOREINGN) wich compare to a yamaha probably yts-62, can't remember the model but its the pro line for sure my horn has off course to me, much more rich and complex tone, but the yamaha it has a nice intonation, for a student horn or whatever you like to claa its quite f! good.

JayeSF

05-06-2009, 07:57 PM

Where are you the Malerne enthusiasts? It didn't excite anyone so far. Should it?

I mean there are not very obvious horns brands that develop cult following them like SML or ... you name it. Does Malerne really deserve ramping up? What are essentially these horns? You say IYHO they should not be called anything but pro. Is there anyone out there who can support this opinion? Otherwise I understand there should be no 'ramping up' really expected.

Well, there was a French maker Malerne whoes horns had this style of keyguards and that style of bell but will it really interest anyone unless there are at least a few attributes inherent in the horn:

- Very good to excellent tone(subjective) and intonation
- Robust build quality and attention to details
- Good ergonomics

How do they compare for example to SML? If you take an SML horn and name it 'professional' and after that take a Malerne will you call it 'intermediate' or 'student'?

To somehow back up my point there is Malerne tenor for sale here (they also have a listing on @#$y): http://www.woodwindsnorthwest.com/Malerne-Student-Tenor-Saxophone-p/inmalts-malerne.htm

Those people say that '...This is an excellent choice for a student or a band program...'.
That's all? A student horn like there are many?

I wouldn't be interested in this subject if I recently didn't aquire one of these myself. As soon as I see it I'll be able to qualify it and probably post some follow up comment... if it really deserves it.

One thought just came on my mind that was floating around but I couldn't catch it. This would be a good question to answer in order to understand the whole purpose of this section: 'Is there any practical interest in Marelerne horns other than historical?'

One thing I missed in my post above is that acccording to (was that on SaxPics?) there were a few different levels of the saxophones like most manufactures would have. But then again if the tenor in the above link is really nothing more than a student instrument where are you the professional Marlerne line enthusiasts?

Wow Win, thanks for the reply....um, I think (?) You seem to have strong opinion on a horn you are completely unfamiliar with, having never touched one before, if I am correct ?

"If it's so good, why haven't we ever heard of it ?"
"If it's really a solid horn, why don't more people have 'em ?"
"If they aren't popular, they must not be very good, right. ?"
"Why aren't they as popular, then as... say, SML's ?"

Interesting questions, ones that appear to be about 100 miles wide....yet are also only one-quarter-inch deep.

Whereas Xanax's comment, based on the experience of actually owning one...is probably one which someone visiting this thread should take as more valuable....

Basically, you find a webiste which says they are student, and you find my thread which says, they are definitely NOT.

So of course, until proven otherwise to you, they are not a quality instrument (?) OK, well...it's not my responsibility to prove or disprove anything to you. Just posting some info and experience I have found over time, to help my sax bro's out...

The thread didn't "excite" anyone ? You conclude this...because....why, exactly (?) It's had a lotta views since I posted it, actually...so....

My point being (if you missed it, I will try again)...there are a LOT of great old vintage horns out there...MANY of which get almost NO exposure whatsoever.

Malerne was obviously a relatively small workshop which didn't produce large quantities of instruments. Even their '70's horns have low serial #'s. (Take note of this, because the fact that there do not seem to have been many produced answers half of your post above....)
Additionally, it appears that almost all, if not all, of the ones which pop up these days are stencil names....so that further obscures their true identity. Yet there have been a good four or five which have popped up on eFlay in the last 6 weeks alone.....

So, for those of us who do not have a few thousand to spend, but who want far more quality than what a contemporary asian horn can offer....for those of us who choose to make an effort to educate themselves a bit on small name makers....looking at vintage stencils is the way to go.

I do not believe this is a big secret, really....that there are many manufacturers of instruments which lack a large reputation yet which produced fine horns (?)

I posted the thread to help people identify the horns. I own 3, 2 playable, and also have played 2 other altos, an Acme and a Linton....so I have played 4 Malerne stencils to date; they appear to have ranged in production date from late '40's-early '50's to mid '70's...so they have been a cross-section of instruments. They are all pro-calibre horns in every respect. Tone, construction, ergos. The intonation issues are no different than what one would find in owning any vintage horn....and this only popped up on 1 of the 4 which I have played....

Even the 2 techs I have taken them to for repair work...Lee Kramka in SF being one of them (and considered to be an absolute Guru in the field, BTW)...both initially shook their heads when looking at the horns, basically asking (subtly and with respect, mind you) "why bother working this up ?".

That was until they played 'em, after which they both agreed that it was a good sounding horn of good quality, arguably worth the money to bring back up to good playing speed.

So, another Stencil horn produced by a smaller European maker, which one can likely pick up for only a couple hundred bucks, and have up and running as a good, solid pro player horn for the vicinity of $500 total (Tenor), $400 total (Alto).

Forgive me if I do not concur with your opinion...but ...

...this...alone...to me, is worth a thread (and a section) dedicated to Monsieur Malerne.

:cheers:

geauxsax

05-06-2009, 08:26 PM

My interest is piqued!

Also, are Malernes related in any way to "Pierret" saxes?

WinnSie

05-06-2009, 09:15 PM

Thanks JayeSF, you defended your Malerne territory professionally. You make me blushing in the first part of you reply and make me proud of owning one of these in the rest of the message :)
I'm sure If you were a shopping assistant in the music store these Malernes would go as we say here as "hot rolls".

Honestly saying I don't believe in miracles. Sooner or later great things are discovered and get the price they deserve. The one I received which is an ACME Master doesn't look and feel like anything special. I had no tenors before but this one looks very much like an Evette-Schaeffer or stencilled Carl Fischer.
In fact the resemblance is striking.

I wonder could it be stencilled by Buffet? On te SaxPics there is a note that some Malernes were Buffet stencills.
Well, maybe I got the wrong Malerne :)

Sorry, I just finished reading your long reply and I'm slowly getting your point - not the look in the first place but the sound makes them so great! That's it, I see!
Thanks, I need to check how this tenor sounds - It's a little dirty, needs cleaning and oiling but the pads look fine and it's complete. Maybe some small adjustments and it will play?

Wait, I haven't played a tenor before and I have no other. How do I compare? Besides I'm such a crap palyer, beginner that is, that I wouldn't probably hear much difference or would I?

Ok, at least I have one, I can try it after oiling and adjustments and can post here my useless (or useful?) opinion.

Anyway, thanks for criticising me.

JayeSF

05-06-2009, 11:47 PM

Eh, not a criticism of YOU, per se....just of the notion that if a horn doesn't have a popular following and repute, it's not worth anyone's time and should not be considered seriously as a quality instrument.

It is the ONE notion which keeps good, solid, vintage musical instruments affordable....

Everyone knows the Big 4 and Selmer, and the asian horns. Then the next "level" may have some familiarity with, I dunno...old Keilwerths or Kohlerts, maybe R & C's, etc. But then you get into horns like Pierrets, Noblets, Grassis, and to a further degree some such as Holtons, Amatis, etc.; and few people bother "going there"...which is a shame, because there were a hecka lot of great hornmakers up until around the '70's or so...

I do hope you enjoy the sax, and if not...well, your opinion is as valid as everyone else's here. I dunno how much you wish to invest in bringing it up to speed, of course. (As I mentioned, to my ears, they are smooth sounding saxes, they don't punch their highs or lows, they don't rattle the foundations, they aren't edgy sounding. So, for many people's applications, they may not cut it. But they sound very nice.)

I say this only because there was some member in the Holton section who spent the better part of several months just trashing his 241. Turns out, after being questioned a bit, he admitted that he never really got it worked up and regulated to the degree where it could function as a good player.

And that is where it becomes a slippery slope. Most of the above mentioned vintage horns, their resale value isn't high...and most folks base the amount of work they are willing to invest in an instrument on what they can turn it around for. Understandable. But perhaps not to the benefit of getting the horn to perform the way it was built to, y'know ?

What I feel (and I am digressing my own thread, here) is that, resale value be damned....if I see a horn with potential (it feels good, it sounds good), it may be worth it to me to invest the $ for repair if what I end up with in the end is a poppin' ol' vintage sax. To date, that decision has produced dividends with these Malernes...Some things to think about.... ;)

JayeSF

05-06-2009, 11:52 PM

My interest is piqued!

Also, are Malernes related in any way to "Pierret" saxes?

No...but actually, saxgourmet.com has some transcribed letters from Vito Pascucci which claims that R. Malerne was a foreman for Noblet in the early 1900's, and was in a band who's director was Georges LeBlanc. Also mentions that SML bought out Malerne in '75....So, there's a lotta interconnection there...

Pierret....I have a nice Olds Parisian by Pierret...and it's a sweet alto. And member Poltergeist wants $500 for his Pierret tenor, which seems like a friggin' steal to me....

Time to RAMP UP the Pierret section....

Oh, wait...they've got it covered already....:(

WinnSie

05-07-2009, 06:00 AM

Thanks JayeSF, good points. I hope I can help you a little later to further ramp up this section when I get the horn cleaned and set-up and post some pics as well.

JayeSF

06-17-2009, 11:04 PM

Found this one, an alto, on eFlay this week....I was the only bidder on it with a day to go and the SOB seller, 'alsbarn', pulled the listing, canceled my bid, and wouldn't respond to why or whether he'd relist.

His loss, I would have paid 2 bill$ + for that horn...definitely far more than he would have gotten in any private sale....

In any case, another Malerne, no doubt....pinky table, low C spat, bell brace, centerlined barrell above the upper stack, and a vertically-stamped serial #....164xx

Hallmark...they didn't just make greeting cards, I guess....:shock:

geauxsax

06-17-2009, 11:15 PM

So. . . .Jaye and/or anyone else,
Which non Selmer or SML French make is your favorite, and why? I have to ask, since these seem to pop up at great prices, and. . .well. . GAS gets the better of me sometimes.;)

JayeSF

06-18-2009, 05:59 PM

So this would be, for me...between a

Malerne

Pierret

Dolnet

Noblet

...as these are the horns I have experienced.

How's about this....I'll answer you in 24 hrs....? (That way I can give 'em a side-by-side ;) )

geauxsax

06-18-2009, 06:13 PM

warp x

06-18-2009, 08:57 PM

soybean

06-18-2009, 09:33 PM

JayeSF

06-19-2009, 12:51 AM

What??? No Couesnon?;):D

And no Leblanc?

....Gentlemen...I would be happy to forward you my PayPal ID if you'd care to make a (significant) contribution to Jaye's Vintage French Saxophone Fund (it's tax-deductable, and the research is for the greater good of humankind)....

JayeSF

06-19-2009, 12:58 AM

Very interesting post and you certainly know your Malernes. I haven't ever played a Malerne. But aside my Mk VIs, i have owned and played other French saxes. These include Buffet S1 alto, Pierret alto Parisian (non "Ambassador"), Noblet/Beaugnier tenor, SML alto & tenor and multiple Couesnon saxes. I'm curious about your experience of Malerne having excellent intonation. Are you comparing this to the others on your list or all saxophones? Also, how is the key action (ergonomics) on these compared to the others on your list?

Thanks for the comment...now, I dunno how well I know Malernes...it's just that when I got my first one, there was such a dearth of info on the web that I figured I could at least record my observations and such. Actually, I have been consistently revising this thread whenever I have stumbled across new info which made my old assumptions invalid or nebulous. It seems that R.Malerne was actually a more prolific mfr. than I first assumed...given the ever-expanding list of stencil names....

Now...intonation......did I actually write "excellent " ???? 8-)

...if I did, I wasn't the greatest choice of words. When it comes to vintage horns, knowing the knocks against them in the intonation dept....whether reputed or real...my yardstick/test for intonation is quite simple:

~ Is it giving me problems....or not ????

~ Does anything jump out at me, or not ?

~ Are intonation quirks manageable such that it can be corrected without difficulty...simply by getting to know the particular horn and how it plays...or would it always be an issue ?

Perhaps not as stringent a protocol as some others might have...but certainly valid enuff, I think.

And based on that measure, offhand right now....I cannot think of any of my French horns which have intonation problems....(actually, the '60's Noblet bari I posted about before was giving me hell in the second register...but this was brought well under control by switching from a small-chamber to a medium/large chamber m'piece....)

But as I said to Geu above... I'll happily take my stable into the shed and really compare 'em to each other, then report back....

al9672

06-19-2009, 02:23 AM

Will be getting my malerne acme stencil overhauled in a month or two

On my Getzen it sounds fantastic with an rpc 110 mpc or otto link hr 9
I'll try to post up a sound clip or two later
(have to excuse my crappy tenor playing - been playing sop a lot more)

JayeSF if you want me to take any more pictures of either the Getzen or acme , just pm or email

Getzen tenor pics
http://www.alexthegeek.com/instruments/getzen/

acme tenor
http://www.alexthegeek.com/instruments/acme/

The getzen and acme are fairly similar with the A. Rampone and Desidera saxes I have.
http://www.alexthegeek.com/instruments/rampone_alto
http://www.alexthegeek.com/instruments/desidera/desidera.html
So who copies who , or source parts from each other or copied the others designs I don't know

JayeSF

06-19-2009, 08:03 AM

Thanks for the link to the pics, Al !...I was nearing my quota on pics, so I couldn't post many of your horns, although they were really valuably informative in regards to this thread. So...Merci...or Grazie.

That Desidera is just plain cool....if I had the $ right now, I would make you an offer, for the sole reason of just wanting to try it for a while.

Both the Desidera and the Rampone show many more Italian traits than Malerne French traits. As Larry Ross told me, he believes that Malerne subbed out work in Italy....therefore some horns have attributes of Malerne and Rampone.

I don't 100% buy that, yet...the Italy connection. I think both of those horns are 100% Italian, no R. Malerne in there at all....

Nobody has been able to direct me to anything written on it; the Malerne Italy thang. IMHO, it becomes a question of whether the Italy conclusion was based upon anyone having or seeing an actual Malerne w/ some Rampone detailing/specs....OR...whether they saw a horn with a stencil name which was commonly a Malerne stencil name, and therefore assumed it was Malerne, even though its details looked Italian.

"Look at that Acme horn. We know Malerne made horns which were stenciled Acme. Therefore , THIS Acme horn must be a Malerne !"

Sounds good until you think about it for a moment.

I made the same mistake with Getzen. R & C confirmed that they made Getzens back when.
Ergo, all Getzens were made by Rampone.
Which we now know is not correct.

I made the same mistake with Lintons.
The vast majority of Lintons were Malernes.
But then up pops some which look nothing like Malernes.
They ended up being Orsi. THIS I discovered in ...the Dolnet section of the Forum....

(Still following me....????:shock:)

I stated in another thread that I believe saxpics.com mistakenly has attributed some horns to Malerne (based on the fact that these horns' stencil names were the stencil names of some other definite Malerne horns). The vast majority of Malerne-identified horns on saxpics all show the same traits (those noted earlier in this thread)...

...but then, a few pictured, do not...actually, they do not AT ALL. Yet they have still been identified as Malerne.

People take saxpics.com as completely accurate (it's an awesome site, but it has mistakes) and wrong attributions come as a result of it.

IF someone could show me a horn engraved Malerne which showed the more Rampone-esque detailing, and was absent of some of the typical Malerne detailing...I'd be convinced. But the only horns I have seen are stencil-named...and that is always a slippery slope to assume that a single stencil name was made by one mfr.

OK, sorry for the soapbox....I'd really be curious as to a definitive answer, however. But we are, of course, swimming in the STENCIL SEA....

Shirish

06-23-2009, 08:28 AM

Hi I have 3 Malernes, Evette Schaeffer and Linton altos, and an Evette tenor too. All have the same keywork (pretty tulip bell key guards), sound excellent (round and warm), and with a Selmer Long Shank Soloist the tone is really something special.
It's very easy to play and responsive and the transitions from lower to upper octave are almost seamless. Action is not special but fine enough. These instruments also have serial numbers on the neck tenon. The linton is engraved sooo beautifully.
Intonationwise there are a couple of problems, most notably a slightly sharp G and F#. This is remedied easily by a little hard plasticine crescent under the F tonehole. The other problem is slightly flat top notes. I don't know what to do about this! But using the front F on longer notes is the best option.
I also had another horn which looked soooo much like a Malerne but said Made in Italy. identical looking tulip keyguards, pinky clusters and body except for the bell keys were on the left. The instrument was stencilled D.E.I.M.I. which I assume stands for something something Italian Musical Instruments (maybe). It was a nice horn with the same nice tone and slightly sharp G :-D I sold it to a friend.
I'm interested in the Acme Master with the modern pinky cluster! Anyone selling? I can trade my Couesnon!

JayeSF

06-24-2009, 06:22 AM

al9672

06-24-2009, 09:03 AM

might be interested in selling as I'm short on space and getting a couple of other horns overhauled (and just getting a martin committee II tenor - get it from the postoffice tomorrow)

A. Rampone alto US$200 + p&h (plays)
Desidera tenor US$150 + p&h (needs an overhaul)
don't want to sell the getzen at the moment - see how the buescher aristocrat thats getting overhauled turns out ( will know in August) but would be US$450 + p&h

maybe the acme master(its not in playable condition needs a post soldered back on and plastic pipe removed from neck then see how bad the pads are.)

Tempted to get the acme fully overhauled and maybe re lacquered.

This isn't a modern pinky cluster
http://www.alexthegeek.com/instruments/acme/IMG_0224.JPG

JayeSF

06-24-2009, 06:14 PM

Yes, that's what I'm curious about...it's the only pinky cluster design on Malernes I am familiar with....is there another ?

Xanax

06-24-2009, 09:52 PM

Hey, i already talked about my Malerne stencil but haven´t actually show it: On mine is writen "EVETTE FOREGEIN". Has serial on bottom (5 digit), on the back of the G# pinky key (last 4 digits) and on the neck (last 3 digits). Also have the plastic below the thumb hook but cut in half. Does anyone has serials number like mine??

Xanax

06-24-2009, 09:54 PM

The rest of the images!

al9672

06-25-2009, 12:17 AM

I thought EVETTE's were from Evette and Schaeffer ?
(who eventually became part of Buffet and Crampon)
and made instruments from the 1890's on wards ?

"Paul Evette and Ernest Schaeffer bought the Buffet-Crampon firm in 1885 and patented their first saxophone on July 25, 1887 (December 5, 1899 in the US). These horns are significantly different than earlier models and are possibly the most technically advanced of any French-made horn produced at the time, with the possible exception of Couesnon."
Thats if saxpics is accurate http://www.saxpics.com/buffet/evette-schaeffer.htm
http://www.saxpics.com/buffet/early.htm

Sale pending on the desidera.

JayeSF

06-26-2009, 07:22 AM

Xanax...nice lookin' horn.

Yes, that's one of those baffling 'Malernes'...the ones which seem to have some taditional French malerne attributes mixed with some Italian Rampone-type details.....

Still a bit up in the air on those, myself....one theory of what those might be is the subcontracted-to-Italy horns, best synopsized in this thread, a quote from a friend in response #39:

http://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?t=113252&page=2

Al...yeah, man that's the thing about Evettes...there are/were so many horns with that name on 'em, kinda hard to keep track of where they came from.

I can say definitively that I have an Evette-Schaffer which was made in France by Malerne, serial 97XX which I believe puts it in the late 60's or so, based on a comparison of serials to some of my Malernes which are seemingly much older horns (I think :|). So I know that at some point, Malerne made some. But MOST Evettte-Schaeffers I have seen also look quite Italian, so again, somewhere there....some of their stuff were stencils made outside of France....unless of course they initially developed some of those details then the Italians copied 'em.....aaaaaargh....

...unfortunately, while the saxpics.com info covers the early Evette going, it sorta stops cold after the mid- 20's...

It's all a real head-scratcher....

Xanax

06-26-2009, 11:43 PM

Mine has serial: 086**. My teacher and some players tried the sax and they all say, looks pretty with the vintage look, the key work is a bit clunky and the strap\position is awkward (i say the same about the new saxophones), but when they play the sound, they say is quite nice :D.

The saxophone parts maybe are made only in France and then they sell it and put together the sax in other countries.

JayeSF

06-27-2009, 12:48 AM

Glad you like it, Xanax...yes, it's strange where some strap eyelets are placed on horns, sometimes.

People don't give these old European horns much credit at all...but a lot of the old Italian and French horns a very solid, respectable players. I mean, it was a flourishing business back then, and there were a LOT of workshops making saxes.....

Yes, there could be a lot of explanations for the hybrid elements. If the Malerne attribution is correct, I would tend to believe that they didn't just send the parts to Italy for assembly...because too many of the details look Rampone. Could have been that they sent the body to Italy....or could have just been they subbed the entire horn.....

Shirish

06-27-2009, 06:09 PM

Excellent info, thanks for sharing !!! Can you post a few pics of these horns ? Also their serial #'s.

I am gonna go pick up my Linton and check out the F# and G on it.

Once again, you mention a horn which seemed Malerne but was stamped Italy...so, once again, there is that possibility of some sort of subcontracting going on between France and Italy. Interesting.

When you say the modern pinky cluster, what do you mean, exactly ? I ask only because all the Malernes I have seen have the nearly identical, typical clusters.

Also, although I don't have an Acme to sell, I am interested in your Cousenon, so I will PM you about that, too.

This is an Acme Master with a modern pinky cluster:

http://cgi.ebay.com/R-Malerne-Paris-Acme-Master-Alto-Saxophone_W0QQitemZ170251581797QQcmdZViewItem?_trk sid=p3286.m20.l1116

I had half a mind to buy it... I think the fact that I didn't proves that I had half a mind :-D but I would have struggled to pay.

As you can see, it's their top model, with the Malerne tulip motif engraved on the neck. Instead I bought a Noblet with a modern pinky cluster for less, similar to a horn Dr. Larry is selling. I'm telling myself it's as good but I'll never know for sure till I try both.

My Couesnon pics are here:

http://s607.photobucket.com/albums/tt152/insaneinsaan/Couesnon%20Monopole%20Conservatoires%20alto%20sax/?action=view&current=IMG031.jpg

I've emailed you a description.

I believe the DEIMI horn was made of Malerne parts and assembled in Italy, like the supposedly 'Made in USA' Vito Beaugniers.

al9672

06-28-2009, 02:25 AM

So which one of you brought that malerene ?

JayeSF

06-28-2009, 06:23 AM

Not me, but whoever got it, the seller Larry Ross is a good guy and if he says it's setup to play, it'll be a great horn for someone.

I did just finish resurrrecting my Robert Martel - Malerne Tenor. I was gonna do a complete patina-strip job on the factory-bare-brass body, but decided not to (lazy)...primarily because the patina is pretty nice looking...it's consistent and bronze-y, not splotchy. Needed the entire lower stack repadded and it also had some weirdenss at the pinky table (the keys were bent enuff that they caught on one another).

The thing plays really, really nicely.

I concur with Shirish that the F# is a bit sharp...but the G wasn't so on this horn. The A2 and B2 are a tad flat, but nothing once again anyhwere near egregiously so...more sorta typical-vintage-so and well within some simple lipping-up.

Action is fine, keywork and ergos are fine...I ahd to do a lotta re-felting and re-corking but it feels very good now. Nice projection, again not as much bottom as an old American tenor, but a very nice and steady midrangey punch to it.

JayeSF

06-28-2009, 06:26 AM

Instead I bought a Noblet with a modern pinky cluster for less, similar to a horn Dr. Larry is selling. I'm telling myself it's as good but I'll never know for sure till I try both.

Noblets are really excellent horns. I have an alto and bari, and they are really superb...you certainly didn't shortchange yourself in getting one of those....

spiderjames

06-29-2009, 01:59 AM

acme tenor
http://www.alexthegeek.com/instruments/acme/

Are these Malernes? I have seen horns with the same features that were stamped Italy?

I have a Linton tenor that still awaits an overhual. I need to ramp up my overhual corner in the garage.

JayeSF

06-29-2009, 05:32 AM

Spider, Al's is definitely a Malerne, that particular Acme he has pictured. A lotta Acmes are Malernes, but then there are certain horns which are Acmes which look unlike most Malernes. Same can be said for Lintons.....take a gander at this thread, this particular response:Xanax...nice lookin' horn.

Yes, that's one of those baffling 'Malernes'...the ones which seem to have some taditional French malerne attributes mixed with some Italian Rampone-type details.....

Still a bit up in the air on those, myself....one theory of what those might be is the subcontracted-to-Italy horns, best synopsized in this thread, a quote from a friend in response #39:

http://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?t=113252&page=2

One explanation as posited by my pal Larry Ross in that other thread is that Malerne subcontracted to Italy...thus the Rampone/Italianesque detailing. These are often missing the typical pinky table and the typical single-wire bell brace. Personally...I am not 100% convinced of that attribution...but it's no less valid, at the moment, than anyone else's....given the dearth of info.

I have rehabbed 2 Malernes so far, the latest being just the other day...and they are both very respectable players. So....fair to say that if one must do a substantial amt. of work on 'em, they will likely end up with a nice vintage horn...but they will likely not be able to recoup all of their investment should they just wish to turn it around and re$ell. Someday, maybe...but the market is seriously just rock-bottom right now.

Shirish

06-29-2009, 07:20 PM

Here are my Linton pics.
Beautiful horn, definitely a Malerne (tulip motif on the guard is a dead giveaway).

http://s607.photobucket.com/albums/tt152/insaneinsaan/Linton%20Malerne%20Paris%20Alto%20Saxophone/

These are the horns with the sharp F# and G... Verified with a tuner :-D easily fixed though, no biggie.

Check out the awesome engraving.

Plays beautifully. But has a crazing on High C with most mouthpieces. How to fix this!!!???

If I ever repad it, I would want to do something about the ugly worn keys. Should I get it silver plated? I want eyes to pop and jaws to drop :-D

I also have the same model tenor but engraved Evette Schaeffer and not much other engraving. It had bad orangish rust so I gently handbrushed the lacquer off. Now it's a bare brass horn on the outside. It used to be in pretty good playing condition to low C# but I gave it to an idiot to repad and he did it awfully and now it's a sitting project which I feel nobody here in India can do justice to. People can do altos ok, but tenors can't be brought to gigging standards... tsk.

As a result I'm offering the horn for sale, 300$... original neck with no dents or pull down, original orange case.

Issues: Ugly resolder on the bow guard, a slightly wavy low C tonehole, and slight bell pushback which happened in shipping.

Any takers? Will post pics soon.

Shirish

06-29-2009, 08:33 PM

I should agree that the Made in Italy markings on alleged Malernes really could be taken with a pinch of salt. Even my Linton is deceptively marked Linton Elkhorn Wis. (Getzen is also located there isn't it?) with absolutely no mention of France anywhere on the horn. I've had that horn and an Evette Schaeffer made in France and those were the exact same horn. I'll ask my friend for the DEIMI saxophone to photograph.. it's DEFINITELY a Malerne, with the same right hand pinky keys, and the same tulip motif bell keyguard. Sounded very similar too, very very warm and round tone... I have had 2 examples of alleged R&C stencils too. The ones with the split diamond bellbody brace. They as I recall were not quite the same as the typical Malerne. The intonation was probably better, as was the action. Tonewise I can't quite call to mind exactly how it compared to the Malerne, but it was also quite warm, for sure. They also had a unique feature which was the Black plastic detachable right thumbrest (ooo comfy :-) and found on a horn I had which is marked Rampone and Cazzani FISM deluxe Stradolin. Less confused or more? :-D

JayeSF

07-01-2009, 11:03 PM

Just sold on eFlay....I thought I could steal it, especially considering she ain't much of a looker...but I got a little too cocky and underbid it tad....

Definitely R.Malerne...tulip keyguard, typical pinky table, typcial C Spat, bell brace, neck detailing, the whole nine yards....

Man, someone just bought that very playable Malerne Tenor for $190 total !!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=190316887526

Shirish

07-08-2009, 07:21 PM

Was eyeing it too.. and I underbid too :-) but I have the same model tenor and it's stuck needing an overhaul :-( so I couldn't possibly have tried to really win it.

JayeSF

07-23-2009, 03:29 AM

Another name I have added to the ever-revised list...Croydon. Just picked up an alto, definitely a Malerne.

2 nice ones sitting on eFlay right now...I am gonna guess they are gonna stay low, too:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=380140621254#ht_7372wt_1050

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=300331914114#ht_500wt_1065

JayeSF

08-17-2009, 05:34 AM

First Malerne Bari I have ever seen or heard of.

Evette. Unfortunately, I cannot copy and past pics from eFlay any longer...I think they changed the system to not allow that.

This auction, although it'll be removed in a few weeks since it's over:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120456479457&ssPageName=ADME:B:EOIBUAA:US:1123#ht_500wt_1182

JayeSF

09-03-2009, 05:27 PM

Another Stencil: Old Kraftsman. hecka cheap-o looking engraving design...too bad, it makes the horn look silly and janky. But it's a Malerne for sure, looks to be near-identical to some of the Evettes they made.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110426434529&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

A note of interest: the body is stamped "Italy" although, again it's definitely a Malerne.

feeds the theory that they subbed some work out across the border, or perhaps supplied bodies and parts to an Italian workshop...

JayeSF

10-17-2009, 05:07 PM

Thanks to Al9 and others, we can confirm that the Getzen Super Deluxe model horns were R. Malerne, or at least made by Malerne at one time.

Here's onother on eFlay....tulip keyguard, elongated low C spat, the whole 9 yards:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Nice-Vintage-GETZEN-Alto-SAX-SAXOPHONE-Super-Deluxe_W0QQitemZ300308855190QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_ DefaultDomain_0?hash=item45ebcd7996