Who plays with the original Rudy neck/corked sleeve?

[Walter Webb]

I have a Rudy Wiedoeft alto with the original neck and composite metal-bakelite(?) mouthpiece that pushes onto a corked metal sleeve that slides onto the neck, tightened with it's own screw clamp. Given that it is metal, with metal facing, I thought it might be a strong player, but NOOO, It is verrrry stuffy and weak sounding, like a quacking platypus smothered in a sleeping bag.

I wonder if the metal sleeve makes a tight seal, because I tried a few modern mpcs on the sleeve and it still sounded weak, like that late 20's tone. I am having a regular cork put on the neck and I expect that will bring it to life.

What is your experience with the original Rudy neck/mpc ?

[bruce bailey]

Those original mouthpieces are really stuffy! I would have the sleve fixed rather than a cork as they work well when tight. To check, pack a lot of corkgrease on the sleve and put it all the way in and see if it leaks. Place your had over the end of the neck and hold the key closed, blow on the cork end and see if it seals tightly. What ever you do, save the little cork piece with the thumb screw. These are impossible to find and usually get discarded with the mouthpiece over the years. I bet one of those is worth $100+ to someone. All the Rudy models I have had worked just fine....fix it!

[jazzbug1]

All my Rudy horns have the adjustable sleeve and they work fine. The Holton metal/resin mouthpiece is a very large chambered, very narrow tip opening model typical of the 20s era. I agree with Bruce to open the tip VERY gradually with fine emery paper. Sand a bit, then play, sand a bit and play, etc. You will eventually reach a good point. Also, if one uses a 2-1/2 reed on those small openings, there won't be much of a sound. Those old mouthpieces require at least a #3 reed to generate much volume and tone, so be sure not to open any tips until you obtain at least a #3 reed. Keep that sliding metal tube lubricated, as they have a habit of seizing unless they are lubricated a few times a year. It has been my experience that the sleeve and mouthpiece must be pushed in near the limit of travel to play in tune, unless one is using a modern small-chambered mouthpiece. The Holton M.Ps are beautifully made and with a substantial reed, are capable of a big sound when opened a bit. A question for Bruce: Have you ever seen a sliding cork device on a soprano? My Rudy soprano has a ridge at the tip which would make a sliding gizmo impossible to insert.

[geauxsax]

I have the orig neck setup on my Rudy alto. I don't have the orig metal/bakelite mouthpiece though. It works great with my mouthpieces though--no issues at all.

[bruce bailey]

Never say the slide on a soprano but also I have never seen a Rudy soprano!
The only Holton sopranos I have owned are in C.

[Walter Webb]

I made my decision and had my tech put a cork on the neck, and I have wrapped the ancient but beautiful specimens in a foam sheet for protection, like a museum curator. Someday I may bring it back, but I see no reason to use it. The mpc and sleeve are in perfect condition, so I shall keep them that way for posterity.

[saxtek]

Never say the slide on a soprano but also I have never seen a Rudy soprano!
The only Holton sopranos I have owned are in C.

Sorry to say, about 20 years ago I overhauled a Rudy Bb soprano that was right in your neighborhood - South Miami - for about 1/5 of what I charge today. It had all the extra keys, and although not perfect, it looked good and played well when I finished it.

Next time, with all the extra keywork on an 80 year old horn, my price will probably scare them in your direction. Send me a business card!

[bruce bailey]

Some days I say I will never work on a vintage soprano!!! I just finished a nice TT VI straight and it was great and easy (didn't need pads). BUTTTTTT, before that I did a curved Conn from 1919. It was a horn that was not played much and I got it from the original family. No work had ever been done, original corks, white pads, etc. WELL this one has drawn holes on the body, rolled on the bow and soldered on the bell. The palm and side key holes were about 3mm off with dips. I guess with the old whiet pillow pads, facing tone holes was not considered part of the job. I must have about $700 in the overhaul but it was worth it....a great horn with no dings or finish loss. Another thing is the holes in my fingers threading those springs through the holes in the kickers of the LH.
Enough complaining for now.......
Back to Holtons.
Of the C sopranos I have owned, my Holton is the best, not as good as a Bb but playable more so than the Conns. Also they are the only Cs that I have seen keyed up to high F.

[jazzbug1]

I just overhauled (for the 2nd time) my Conn curved soprano from 1913. I have owned it for about 40 years and have always been impressed how it goes up to high F, which is unusual for early sopranos. It plays remarkably easily and I have never played a soprano that didn't require serious embrochure squeezing to achieve high F. This horn just glides up to F with very little effort. I must say that of the early saxophones, Conn was the best and had the best intonation. I prefer the Holtons after the early 1920s. I have never seen or heard of a Holton curved soprano and I doubt if they ever made one.

[NissanMarkVII]

I have a 1920s Conn (stencil) curved soprano in silver plate being re-built now. Since I don't have a lot of money right now, I told the tech to take his time (which he is, been 2 months now!), but, he's taking a significant amount of labor off the final price, so I get a nice product, at a nice price :) .

[Henry D]

I have a Rudy Wiedoeft alto with the original neck and composite metal-bakelite(?) mouthpiece that pushes onto a corked metal sleeve that slides onto the neck, tightened with it's own screw clamp. Given that it is metal, with metal facing, I thought it might be a strong player, but NOOO, It is verrrry stuffy and weak sounding, like a quacking platypus smothered in a sleeping bag.

I wonder if the metal sleeve makes a tight seal, because I tried a few modern mpcs on the sleeve and it still sounded weak, like that late 20's tone. I am having a regular cork put on the neck and I expect that will bring it to life.

What is your experience with the original Rudy neck/mpc ?

-The original metal liner mouthpiece is indeed "neat" but even a Fonz sized dose of cool can't hide the tone. "Vintage" perhaps- but while I prefer the "duck being stepped on" vice the "platypus in a sleeping bag" analogy our assessments are similar.

-On the other hand I find the sliding sleeve on the neck to be a nice feature. Using a combination of how far one pushes the mouthpiece onto the cork and how far the sleeve goes on to the neck (as one increases the other decreases and vice versa) the effective volume of the area of the neck above the neck end can be adjusted (same effect works on the old Conn tuning necks) and you can really dial in a mouthpiece to work "just so".

-Check for leaks; pull the sleeve halfway off, block the end of the neck and blow in the end of the sleeve. It should seal. I use trumpet slide grease on the sliding sleeve- this not only makes it smooth as silk but may well help seal. I'm not sure that it's neccesary though.

-I think the Rudys can sound as full as any other sax but for reasons not completely clear to me they seem to require an abnormal amount of futzing about to get there. I use a Link STM 6* / VD 2 and a half and it plays pretty well.

-"Pretty well" encompasses a LOT of alto's of course and while it's a gas to blow it still isn't a leading choice for other than personal enjoyment. (There's an outside chance that I play the sax for just that of course......)

[jazzbug1]

Holton also tried a metal/resin mouthpiece on a corkless neck somewhere in the mid 20s. They were always fooling around with ideas, but this probably didn't work well. It consisted of the usual Holton mouthpiece, but a clamp screw was at the end of the shank. The idea was that the mouthpiece could slide up and down the metal neck and then the player clamps the mouthpiece at the proper point. This was a great idea, but the metal (brass) in the neck would distort over time, as it would not "give" like cork, so any little crevice or dent would cause an air leak between the corkless neck and the mouthpiece. These mouthpieces are rare, but they can be recognised by the clamp on the end. I think this would work with a heavier neck material like stainless steel, but it would limit a player to using only the mouthpiece designed for the corkless neck due to the specific diameter of the neck, which would be too narrow for standard mouthpieces.

[jazzbug1]

Other players know I use a Wiedoeft Model, as I wear my cork on my sleeve.