'Artist' Tenor: Holton Stencil?

[LaPorte]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140308518460
Any clues?

I can't believe what has happened to the gold lacquer????:shock:

Felix

[geauxsax]

Looks like a later Collegiate tenor (577). Somebody went crazy with the Brasso on this one. But that's not the worst--the body tube is collapsed in the back--yikes. Another student horn bites the dust.

[LaPorte]

Looks like a later Collegiate tenor (577).

Looks like a Collegiate (II) tenor to me, too.

What year of production might that be?

The Collegiate II was introduced ca. 1932/33, the very first without front F, like my Collegiate II alto.

These older ones (thirties) have the tadpole-shaped Eb/C Key-table like the 'Artist'. On later Collegiates Eb/C was redesigned (e.g.566 or 577).

However the pinky LH table (spatula keys) looks more like a professional type, not like 'Collegiate'. For comparison a '577' Collegiate from the same seller:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Collegiate-by-Holton-Tenor-Saxophone-577-263568_W0QQitemZ140308512167QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_ DefaultDomain_0?hash=item140308512167&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C 240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50

The three digit series numbers were introduced in the mid thirties. The 'Artist' shows the '575'. Might be that all 'Collegiates' begin with a '5'?

The serial number of the 'Artist' is 16191. The early 'CollegiateII' serial numbers show five-digit-numbers, beginning with a '1'. They don't fit the line of Holton serials as mentioned in the model list. Supposing that on these early CollegiateII saxophones the first digit might be dropped (just like on some Martin horns), the SN would be 116191. The year of manufacture would be 1934. Is that a plausible result or explanation?
If so, we might be able now to date these (rare) misterious five digit numbers correctly. What do you think?

Is series '575' worth to be mentioned in the 'Modern vintage Holtons'?

What's the difference of the 'Artist' tenor to your 'RevelationII' tenor? One is the LH bell keys vs. split bell. Other differences?

Felix

[geauxsax]

Felix,
My feeling with this horn is was that it was a later model--more akin to the Collegiates of the 50's and 60's. The LH cluster and neck (no bar brace) look like the later ones. It does have earlier elements too though, like the bell brace. I can't be sure, but most telling, I believe it has drawn tone hones vice soldered.

It's got the 6" bell that my Revelation II has, but I think that was a constant in Holtons.

As far as Collegiates with elements in common with my RevII--Mope's that was for sale, as well as the earliest Collegiate wenoted (on the Holton Loyalist page) are vitually identical with my horn. No front F, braces look the same, and soldered tone holes. The big differences are the bell keys--mine are obviously split whereas the Collegiates are on the player's left.

[LaPorte]

As far as Collegiates with elements in common with my RevII--Mope's that was for sale, as well as the earliest Collegiate wenoted (on the Holton Loyalist page) are vitually identical with my horn.

That is the big question for me: Is there a continuity (dimensions of the body) from the CollegiateI which is essentially a Couturier (e.g. the Holton 'Loyalist' tenor) to the RevelationII?

The body of the CollegiateII (measures) is clearly different from that of the CollegiateI. (I had both (altos) in my hands, compared side by side). I'm still searching for a Holton saxophone (mid or late thirties) which has the same dimensions like a CollegiateI. If there is none, the Couturier body-design died with the last delivery of a CollegiateI or 'Beaufort American' (SN 39xxx).

This is the last research I'm interested in, after that I'm going to play for the rest of my life without any numbers in my brain.:D

Felix

[geauxsax]

As far as Collegiates with elements in common with my RevII--Mope's that was for sale, as well as the earliest Collegiate wenoted (on the Holton Loyalist page) are vitually identical with my horn.

That is the big question for me: Is there a continuity (dimensions of the body) from the CollegiateI which is essentially a Couturier (e.g. the Holton 'Loyalist' tenor) to the RevelationII?

The body of the CollegiateII (measures) is clearly different from that of the CollegiateI. (I had both (altos) in my hands, compared side by side). I'm still searching for a Holton saxophone (mid or late thirties) which has the same dimensions like a CollegiateI. If there is none, the Couturier body-design died with the last delivery of a CollegiateI or 'Beaufort American' (SN 39xxx).

This is the last research I'm interested in, after that I'm going to play for the rest of my life without any numbers in my brain.:D

Felix

I'd like to comapre a 241, as well as a Rudy Tenor with my Rev II. I'm curious as to how much (if at all) the body tube changed.