Larceny

[wianno]

I don't like what's going on in the Real Book thread of the MIDI, Music Software and Sheet Music forum. Sher Music does a great job putting together their publications, including Real Books. Why let the SOTW forum be a base for theft of their ideas and work?

It's disappointing that serious musicians engage in this behavior. If they're adults, they should know better. If they're kids, they can shovel snow or mow lawns to raise the money to purchase their music scores.

JD

[Gandalfe]

It might be instructional to provide a folder for stolen instruments, music, and equipment. Not only would it be a place to report stolen saxes, but maybe we could talk about how you take steps to protect your gear and intellectual material.

Just and idea...

[kcp]

In terms of copyrights and protection of intellectual material - Not so long ago it was easy to find music scores, mp3, midi files and such for free on Internet. Now, we’ve gone from one extreme to the other at the opposite end of the spectrum; finding scores, mp3s or midi for free is nearly impossible and to the point that might I add, is nearly ridiculous.

I for one have never been an avid collector of mp3s and never collected them with the intention of burning them on CD to listen in my living room. No. What I’m looking for in terms of mp3 has always been short 30 sec extracts of a given song or a given style in order to study it and apply an arrangement or an original composition of my own –– In terms of Midi files I’ve been using those as reference templates to make musical arrangements most often using a different instrumentation than the midi file’s. Also, must I add that there used to be more “posers-wannabe-arrangers” on the net than there are real arrangers; I have rarely found midi files on the net that doesn’t have (in most cases really outrageously amateurish) mistakes in terms of chords, key, tempo and proper range assigned to the instrument –– In terms of music scores all that I have been looking for is for a chord progression, again to be used to construct my own arrangements –– I’m sure that I am not alone in this situation. This copyright frenzy that we’re going through right now isn’t helping much on the educational and creational point of view. So before we start shaking our fists, scream at the injustice and go to the extreme of name-calling everyone as irresponsible, first consider that several folks on this forum are educators and professionals who certainly don’t need a music score to learn how to play a song integrally, exactly note for note, but who rather use these materials as reference. As opposed to beginners and amateur-level musicians who would want to learn a given song integrally because they don’t know any other way.

As for the kind of exchange you describe, going-on in MIDI, Music Software and Sheet Music forums, I agree that there is a need to educate people about the respect of copyrights and intellectual material without going too far towards one of the other extremist side.

just my 2c 8)

[Harri Rautiainen]

It might be instructional to provide a folder for stolen instruments, music, and equipment. Not only would it be a place to report stolen saxes, but maybe we could talk about how you take steps to protect your gear and intellectual material.A new forum, or folder as you call it, has been created under General Discussion.

This topic moved there as a starter.

Thanks for your suggestion, Gandalfe.

[Media Lint]

Re: music piracy and mp3 availability and related

I am involved in the freeware and shareware developer community of computer music tools, among other things I do. Sometimes people lose sight of all the good things that are out there. These things don't just happen, they're a lot of work and people do it for the love of the creative artform that it is. But it helps if folks support them. The anti-corporate providers of goods and services are an endangered species. Anyway ..

I envision a global public library on the internet where all artists and authors are paid equally for the use of their work on a royalty system similar to BMI, ASCAP. This is what it should be. With free access to those who can't afford to pay and for educational institutions and a subscription fee for those who can afford it. This concept is perfect for all written works, including music scores. There are problems: free enterprise and profit vs free exchange of information, perceived or evaluated worth. But I think eventually the idea may force itself to become or else no one will make any profit. The RIAA is going about things all wrong, they need to take off the beer goggles and get over the lawsuit lust.

As far as today, I use the new legal napster. I like it. Not all the music I want to hear is there, but much of it is. If you get the monthly subscription you can listen to most of that without having to buy the tracks in entirety, and you get the 30 second clips of the buy only tracks, you just can't burn it to a CD without buying the track or album. For example: I can listen to Joshua Redman or Bob Dylan for hours and hours with my subscription. By the way I never used kazaa but checked out the old napster for a short time but used that mostly for concert bootlegs. All of which were of rather poor quality and not worth any money to begin with.

I think all should get their due for the work they do. I'm pretty anti-piracy, and my contribution of freeware and endless downloadable and streaming music to the internet doesn't mean the stuff I don't give away for free is also free or that someone else is free to charge for what I gave them for free! (True: copies of one of my free download programs were spotted for sale on CD at a certain retail store. That made me angry.)

</RANT>

Oh and thanks for the forum. ;) I'll leave my soapbox home next time.

[rcwjd]

Hello

As both an attorney and musician (well at least arguably), this whole topic of copyright interests me. For my comment on U.S. copyright, as well as an actual cite to the U.S. Code section on the fair use exception to copyright, go to the info section of my website. For the purposes that most people use clips, midis, scores, etc., and who discuss them in these forums, it is my opinion that they do not in general violate U.S. copyright laws. Of course, this webiste is very much an international website, and each jurisdiction has its own laws, but I really doubt that the kind of offenders that draw the attention of regulatory authorities are found on this website's various forums.

As to publishers like Sher, who turn out excellent products, I suspect that mentions of their materials within these forums have produced far more orders for their products than any limited free use of their materials have resulted in lost sales.

As that old English guy once said " Much Ado about nothing."

[Sam]

Counselor, as an attorney and putative musician, I read your post with interest.

Where we disagree is on the topic of fake books. There are hundreds of thousands of copies of Real Books out there, and the composers of those tunes are paid in nothing but "exposure."

I'm not saying that I have never owned or used an illegal fake book. I am saying that we humans (including, of course, we attorneys) should aim for the highest standards of conduct. By those standards, illegal fake books are theft.

My hat is off to Chuck Sher for doing the right thing and making it easier for all of us to do the right thing.

[rcwjd]

Sam

Thanks for the comment. I don't believe that we disagree. My comments and cite to the code were intended to point out that activity that by definition falls within the exclusion to the copyright law does not harm working musicians. The illegal fake books that you refer to do not fall within that exclusion because they are produced and sold to generate profits for the individuals making them. There may be free fake books out there, but by and large they are sold. Even the free fake books fall outside of the code because of the sheer volume of tunes included, which is far in excess of the scope of the exclusion for education purposes. This would clearly conflict with the statute. I also agree with your comment about Sher doing the right thing - that publisher does. My concern would be the chilling effect that the overly zealous and mistaken prohibitions against sharing clips, backings, music, etc., for educational purposes would have on maintaining and broadening music education and the enjoyment of performance gained by the individual amateur musician- i.e. those who comply with the law, do the right thing, and do not cause economic harm to the original artists.