voll true bari high notes

[saxmaniacrob]

ok the higher i go after i hit the octave key the duller this horn sounds. when i get to the "a" it just loses all it's brightness. i'm using the cheap rico mouthpiece that came with it and number 2 reeds. if i go to a 3 will it help or is this just going to be the nature of the horn?

[jazzcat58]

What make is the horn?...do you mean A in the upper register not altissimmo? ... a different mouthpiece may help, has the horn been checked over for leaks etc!...?

[saxmaniacrob]

voll true baritone and yes, it's been checked for leaks

[RootyTootoot]

What make is the horn?...

It's an old King. By repute, those Vol Trues are not great. I had a Vol True 2 alto some years ago. Not great. But get it checked over.

[jazzcat58]

voll true baritone and yes, it's been checked for leaks

thanks for that i didn,t realise it was linked to a king as rooty said,i haven,t heard of a voll true up to now.
ok so theres no leaks, so its basically stuffy above the upper A" onwards i dont think a stronger reed would help much, but you might consider changing to a different brand, plasticovers may be worth a look they do project well, so that may improve your dullness?.
A change in mouthpiece may well free the horn up in the upper register also, a piece that projects responds easily?....for baritone, links, runyons, jody jazz could all prove to be good pieces ...

[SaxPlayer1004]

Try a big chamber mouthpiece. It should help out quite a bit.

[saxmaniacrob]

this came with a rico 7 from what i've read these old horns do better with otto links

[jazzcat58]

this came with a rico 7 from what i've read these old horns do better with otto links

well the link is a larger chamber piece, i used one on my bari, initially and it works very well .i still have it as a back up..

[bruce bailey]

I recently got a Rico B3 for my old Martin bari and it would hardly play. Try something a bit more closed (lot more than a B7). I found a plain Yamaha 5C is the best so far. Many of the old fat chambered mouthpieces are too closed for modern playing styles and the Yamaha seems to bridge the gap. I do think it is a mouthpiece problem on your horn. I had a King zephyr and Mark VI baris at the same time and the King needed the fattie which was bad on the mark VI and the Otto Link from the Selmer was bad on the King. Baris are less mouthpiece friendly than the other saxes.

[SaxPlayer1004]

Especially the vintage ones. They're wicked picky re. mouthpieces. The 5c really is a great mouthpiece for the price though.

[saxmaniacrob]

i think i'll give that a shot. i played tonight and it sounded pretty good. a lot of this is probably me too. i keep jumping from clarinet to the bari so that may not be helping either. i just won a chu alto on ebay so this should just complicate things more. thanks for the info. are the yamaha mouthpieces reasonably priced?

[SaxPlayer1004]

$40 on WWBW. Where are you located? There might be a local shop where you can try some mouthpiece out.

[saxmaniacrob]

i'm across the river from columbus georgia and the shops here offer rico's and that's about it. for 40 bucks i'll roll the dice on the yamaha. will it come with a ligature?

[saxmaniacrob]

39.99 on musicians friend then 27.00 more for the ligature. pretty good price compared to the jodi jazz stuff. can those things really be that much better?

[MartinMods]

I'm working on one of these now. It plays great! The neck is one piece so there is no tenon screwing things up just 6 inches from the mouthpiece. I tested it with my HR Link 8 and it screams. I'm just about finished and I'll post the results with picts and audio, but here's what I did to it.

1. added high E/F toneholes + Keys + forked F - note that the 1 piece neck bends to the right, instead of the left on other baris. This makes it impossible to add the E/F keys. The solution was to cut the neck just below the register pip. Desolder the bow pieces and rotate them so they bend to the left. Resolder. Normal baritone.

2. Installed a conical neck tenon and reposition the register pip by ca. 1" up, with it's key hinge mounted on the base of the neck .

3. Adjust 2nd register mechanism to match new neck key.

4. LH pinky mod

5. .005" thin Bonneville resonators

6. RH Palm key adjustments.

7. probably replace lower register pip for E2/F2 intonation.

These have a great sound.

[SaxPlayer1004]

Mine didn't. I have a rovner for my Selmer S90 that I use. The Caravan mouthpieces are good as well. Really a classical mouthpiece, but they work great with the older baris. Not sure what style your looking to play, but the Link STM's and Tone Edges really are great mouthpieces for the vintage baris. I have had good luck with Meyer hard rubber pieces as well.

They problem you're going to have is that your horn is very picky with mouthpieces. A lot of players use Berg Larsens for bari. You can't use these because the chamber isn't large enough and the horn will be out of tune. Most jazz/rock type mouthpieces are small chambered to give more edge and require less air. They work fine with the modern horns, but don't work with the vintage.

Runyon Customs are cheapish mouthpieces too and play extremely well. I have a buddy using one on his 12m bari, he also has a Quantum that he's had good luck with as well.

[saxmaniacrob]

oh, it really growls until i hit the octave key. i love the sound of the low end on this thing i just fell like it loses something around the upper "g" and above. it doesn't sound bad, it just doesn't sound as mean. but......that bottom end is just plain mean even with a crappy mouthpiece. mine may actually be a voll true II, the neck does come off. I have less than 500.00 in this thing right now so i'm happy. i just want a little more character on the top end.

[MartinMods]

oh, it really growls until i hit the octave key. i love the sound of the low end on this thing i just fell like it loses something around the upper "g" and above. it doesn't sound bad, it just doesn't sound as mean. but......that bottom end is just plain mean even with a crappy mouthpiece. mine may actually be a voll true II, the neck does come off. I have less than 500.00 in this thing right now so i'm happy. i just want a little more character on the top end.

Clean out the neck and the upper register pip. You can't take it off so I bet it is half clogged up.

[saxmaniacrob]

man, i'm going for a raspy growl like a 90 year old prostitute that's smoked since she was six. edgy rock and roll

[SaxPlayer1004]

The rico's aren't bad mouthpieces. I have a b5 that I use on occassion. Good for a lot of edge without too much volume and air. You can try a hard rubber link. That should help with the edge you want. Try cleaning the neck octave pip out, something might be in there which could be a problem. Runyons with a spoiler might also be good to keep the large chamber mouthpiece but with a baffle to help with the edge.

And martinmods and I are posting the same thing at the same time.

He did say it comes off though, but I'd still clean it out. Pipe cleaners work well.

[saxmaniacrob]

how in the world do i clean out that part of the horn?

[saxmaniacrob]

yeah, that thing sounds pretty tough with the rico actually. i may try cleaning it out. i think this was a college or military band instrument at some point in time.

[SaxPlayer1004]

Pipe cleaners work well for cleaning the inside of the pips. There is an article that Stephen Howard wrote for cleaning the necks.

http://www.shwoodwind.co.uk/HandyHints/Crook_cleaning.htm

[jazzcat58]

man, i'm going for a raspy growl like a 90 year old prostitute that's smoked since she was six. edgy rock and roll

That should sound pretty wicked then!!!...lol..nice and edgy!!

[saxmaniacrob]

ok, i just got a great deal on some reeds. i went from a rico #2 to a rico plasticover #3 and wow what a difference it made in the sound of this horn. i think i'm going to drop back to a 2 1/2 until i find a more open mouthpiece. i think i gained some volume and it definitely sounds brighter with a little more rumble. definitely a move in the right direction. i'm also going to clean the neck this weekend.

[NissanVintageSax]

This is a King New Series (1926) . Do you have any pics of your Voll-True?

I was using the Link #5, until I picked up an H Couf 5*R Artist. Best match I have found so far! Mine is keyed to High F. I have a link to mods done to it somewhere on here.

[saxmaniacrob]

i bought a selmer metal 7. i was very concerned the first couple of hours because i couldn't get a decent sound out of it. after i tried a few different reeds and settled for a van doren 3 1/2 i got the dirty raspy sound i was looking for. now i need to figure out what i want on the chu alto i just bought. i'm supposed to do some studio work with a blues band soon so i'm still looking for a raspy growl. the alto needs pads really bad. i'm thinking an open mouthpiece with some big resonators on the pads will get me there. i guess this needs to be taken up in the conn forum. i'll take some pics of the king and figure out how to post them.

[NissanVintageSax]

I have a photobucket account. It's free, and links are quick and easy. I think that's what most people here use.

[saxmaniacrob]

do you think it would be worth overhauling the old king or putting that money into a conn bari?

[NissanVintageSax]

That's a personal prefernce. I'd rebuild the King, just because I like the feel and sound of it better. True, it will take more time to fix the tuning quirks, but, for me, it's more than worth it! And my Bari is no less out of tune than a comparable Conn. With ergos that are 10Xs better!

[saxmaniacrob]

it is a screamer, that's for sure. i've got a guy offering to repad/recork it for 450. i may go ahead and do it. that puts 900 in a horn that isn't worth 900 though.

[NissanVintageSax]

If you count what my parents bought mine for, and what used for a trade in on modifications, I have about $950 into mine. Out of pocket I only have about $170 spent though (plus the $300 True Tone Alto trade in on mods). Still comes down to if its worth it to you. If you KNOW you won't sell it, don't worry about retail/resale and just get where it plays how you want it to. If you are having second thoughts, then maybe this horn isn't IT for you, and you should try the Conn. Conn ergos can be modified too if you need to.

[saxmaniacrob]

i don't think i have a local tech that i trust to do the work to really get it right. what is the retail value of a 1933 king bari in jam up playing condition? I could send it to tenor madness and get it completely overhauled for about 1200.