Odd side keys revealed

[Walter Webb]

Here are links to some good pictures and a .pdf of advertising that show an early (date unknown) Evette-Schaefer (Buffet-Crampon) Apogee System C Melody sax with a plethora of odd keys, two of which appear to have been copied (?) by Holton. Which came first? Note that the Carl Fischer Co. utilized many of these odd keys in their home make, but abandoned some due to complexity). Looks like Holton did the same thing.

The hi D trill side keys is, in my opinion, quite useful due to the fact there are so many fingers to move between the nearly open-fingered middle B, C, C# and the 6-fingered D. I have not yet come across a passage that the side G# could facilitate.


http://drrick.com/apogee/apogee.html

http://drrick.com/apogee/apogee.pdf

http://drrick.com/Vintage%20Sax%20Collection.htm

Could people chime in about how they use these keys? Have they been useful, or are they a joke, as so many "experts" say?

[NissanMarkVII]

That's cool. There was one on e-bay, but it didn't have all those alternate keys (if it had, I would have bid on it. It went cheap). I'd just start playing w/it.

[Henry D]

They actually play pretty nicely all things considered. The one I had was an HP tenor so I only used it a cappella but it was surprisingly easy to control throughout the range of the horn. The drawbacks (aside from being HP);
-Really short really fat needle springs resulting in a very stiff action.
-No automatic octave key- surprisingly easy to get used to, as were the additional RH options for Eb and the bell keys.
-I was constantly pinching the living heck out of my RH middle finger with the fourth finger lever (look at the pictures from the OP).

If you're a collector or simply like to blow on old horns and appreciate the unusual they're nice pieces of work.

[DukeCity]

Dr. Paul Bro (is he still teaching at Illinois State U?) did his doctoral dissertation on American saxophone manufacturers of the late 19th and early 20th centuries. Tons of info in his paper about all of the extra gizmos and all of the different models that came and went.

[LaPorte]

Dr. Paul Bro (is he still teaching at Illinois State U?) did his doctoral dissertation on American saxophone manufacturers of the late 19th and early 20th centuries. Tons of info in his paper about all of the extra gizmos and all of the different models that came and went.

Paul Bro, “The Development of the American-Made Saxophone: A Study of Saxophones Made by Buescher, Conn, Holton, Martin, and H. N. White,” (D.M.A. diss, Northwestern University, 1992).

[eddierich]

The Deville Universal Method has a page called "Improvements added to the Evette and Schaeffer System of Saxophones" that outline the uses of the Apogee mechanism. There are also some exercises for applying them throughout the book.

[Walter Webb]

LaPorte, How could a person access the dissertation of Paul Bro that you cited?
Is it on the net, at the university, or where? I would love to read it.
Walter

[soybean]

Could people chime in about how they use these keys? Have they been useful, or are they a joke, as so many "experts" say?I don't have an Apogee, but i do have a vintage Holton and the high D key and the G# trill are both very useful. The D key is great for classical and legit type playing when you need to trill from C# to D. The G# key is also useful, but perhaps not as much.

I have heard that Yamaha will make a custom order sax with the high C#/ D trill key.

[LaPorte]

LaPorte, How could a person access the dissertation of Paul Bro that you cited?
Is it on the net, at the university, or where? I would love to read it.
Walter

I think a promising contact will be the Library of Northwestern University, Evanston, USA

Felix

[Jazz House]

THese extra keys are weird but pretty cool. I would be pretty awesome to play one of those sometime.

[milandro]

I've seen these keys also on a Oscar Adler alto if I remember well you can use those key to operate with the right hand all the same keys that you use with the LH table

[bruce bailey]

Probably like a clarinet where you can do chromatics without rolling.

[jazzbug1]

I owned an Evette-Schaeffer tenor with all those extra fingerings. It came in a beautifully tooled thick leather case and had a high gloss silver finish. It was high pitch, so it was not very useful. The double octave system could be ignored, as the bore was quite small so the high notes were easy to blow through a tighter embrochure. This worked except for the palm key notes, which required the second octave key to be applied. I'm guessing it was built around 1910. I sold it 30 years ago for $40.00.

[kayfabe]

I find that RH D trill key gets in my way. I find it hard to quickly move to the Bb, C and E side keys. Have been trying to sell my holton alto because of that damn D key. It just occured to me that it might be removable. so guys would a decent tec be able to remove it without effecting the horn negativly?I am not a tech guy at all so I have no idea if this is an insane idea or not. someone help me figure out a way to keep this otherwise nice sounding cool alto
thanks
Bill

[kayfabe]

Hi guys, I hate that darn rh D key. I have a hard time quickly moving to the side Bb, C and E keys because of it. It just seems to be in my way. can it be removed without dameging the horn by a decent tec? I like this horns sound and it plays nicely I just hate that darn D key

Bill

[jazzbug1]

It would be a job, as the alt. D key is on the same shaft as the right hand key to provide intonation for the high E and F palm keys. A shaft would have to be made out of key stock to take up the space, or the more amateur way of using a small cylinder with a set screw on the rod to keep the remaining key in place on the rod. A section of rod would show, but so what. You are the first person I have heard of who has trouble with this key being in the way. Most players ignore it, although once you use it, it is handy for C to D and D to Eb or C# to D. Perhaps your hand position is not standard. If you did proceed, you could seal the hole with a cut-down wine cork, which might leave a pleasanr scent!