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xax
01-17-2009, 10:51 PM
Not sure if this should go here or in the manufacturing forum. At any rate, my latest information regarding differences between HN White Cleveland brand saxophones and the Zephyr and Super 20 horns is that while the Cleveland, and I presume American Standard, models were drawn on the same mandrels as the Zephyr and the Super20, they always(?)had "pulled" rather than hard-soldered tone holes. At some point(70s), they tried to do likewise with the Zs and S20s, but the results did not satisfy their quality standards.

Regarding the differences between earlier and later HN White horns, supposedly the earlier brass had red lead in it which made for a better quality of musical instrument brass. However, when I Googled brass composition, I found no reference to so-called "red lead" versus so-called "white lead" which Jack said, was used in later brass. His speculation was that the change in the lead content in the brass was due to laws meant to protect workers, in particular, against the harmful effects of (red)lead leaching from brass. Again, i could not find information to verify this so, TIFWIW. I have noticed that early horns seem have more red leaching or so-called "red rot" than newer horns but i don't know whether that's (red)lead or copper or what...8-)

geauxsax
01-17-2009, 11:26 PM
Xax,
I'm not much of a King guy, other than a late Eastlake 615 tenor: Are you saying King had soldered tone holes at some point early on?

xax
01-17-2009, 11:46 PM
Xax,
I'm not much of a King guy, other than a late Eastlake 615 tenor: Are you saying King had soldered tone holes at some point early on?

Most if not all Zephyrs (Voll-Trues?) and Super 20s up until to the mid to late 70s Eastlake models had soldered tone holes. There are a couple of threads on the subject elsewhere in this King forum.

jicaino
01-17-2009, 11:55 PM
I have 2 voll true II's (basically Zephyrs, they look and play the same) and they all have hard soldered tone holes. I have one Voll I with drawn tone holes. But, and here's the catch, I have 3 HN White tenors (around 7x.xxx) one is bare brass, one satin silver and the other is bright gold plated) and they all have hard soldered tone holes! I'll check on one or two HNW's altos that I have in the shop and report back on tone holes.

xax
01-18-2009, 04:18 PM
I have 2 voll true II's (basically Zephyrs, they look and play the same) and they all have hard soldered tone holes. I have one Voll I with drawn tone holes. But, and here's the catch, I have 3 HN White tenors (around 7x.xxx) one is bare brass, one satin silver and the other is bright gold plated) and they all have hard soldered tone holes! I'll check on one or two HNW's altos that I have in the shop and report back on tone holes.

Are those HN White tenors split key bell horns?

jicaino
01-18-2009, 06:40 PM
yes xax, split bell keys.