how old is vintage?

[scherzo5586]

I'ev got a fairly old sax, but I don't think it is considered vintage. What I'd like to know is, just how old does it have to be to be considered vintage?

[Hornlip]

Kinda depends on both age and design.

The Mark VI was made into the early 70's, but is considered "vintage". "The Martin" saxophones were made until the early 70's as well, but were designed in the early 40's, and are probably considered more "vintage" than the Mark VI by most who care about vintage horns, in that it doesn't incorporate many of the design innovations found in the SBA & Mark VI horns (like offset tone holes, etc) and tends to have a darker tone.

So, you could have a 1970 "The Martin" and a 1960 Mark VI, and "The Martin" might be considered the more "vintage" horn!!

[Sigmund451]

On ebay yesterday can be considered vintage :wink:

[Hurling Frootmig]

Probably anything older than 25 years in the sax world is vintage.

[Sigmund451]

In the antique world I think 30 years is the standard. I believe it is in autos too. Pardon the earlier cheeky answer. Somehow it seems that there should be something more descriminating in saxophones since vintage suggests a shift in both production and significant design changes that occured often earlier than that date. (Much as hornlip suggests)

When I think of vintage I think of something well before the 70's because of that. Of course this is where it becomes a very subjective matter...to me there is a difference between coveted, rare, and vintage. Vintage usually suggests a certain year or era and other than a few horns its hard to call the 70's a fine vintage if that makes any sense. However, some coveted and excellent horns were, nonetheless made at that time. Perception and the excessive use of the word renderes it somewhat meaningless at times. Im going to stop now but I figure its food for thougt...and best served with a vintage wine.

[Gordon (NZ)]

'Vintage" is a label given to an instrument when the owner or seller wants to add (very likely imagined) prestige in his (and any buyer's) mind, hence increase the value.

It is relatively meaningless unless you are a buyer, in which case, it mens the asking price has been elevated.

Thus spake the cynic!

The only place I have encountered the term is in this forum. It is not in common use in my country. We use 'old' to indicate age, and get more specific when needed. We use other terms to indicate the degree of quality, and often these are more specific, especially as most 'vintage' instruments have some some quite serious detractors, often in mechanical design, placement of keys, etc. We tend to call a spade a spade, without glossy labelling. Peter Jackson (director of our films, Lord of the Rings)could be said to be a caricature (in appearance and behaviour) of many New Zealanders.

[cc]

Gordon speaks the truth, he is vintage and wise.

[Vortex]

I think "vintage" could probably be used to describe any horn that is no longer produced (i.e. Martins, Chu Berrys, Mark VI's, etc)

[Thomas]

pre World War II-possibly through mid 1940's is the standard(because I say so(
MK VI's are not "vintage" more like late middle aged

[Gordon (NZ)]

Gordon speaks the truth, he is vintage and wise.

LOL! Clever.

[gary]

Reflecting on this post I realized that, while my sax is old and vintage,
I am older than my sax! Oh my. :shock:

[scherzo5586]

hm, I'm a lot younger than my sax (the horn being twenty seven years old.) Gordon, the term vintage is used an awful lot in the states, especially where I am. (Philadelphia) Except that most of the guys who use it just use the term as a comparison to what they already have. I've never met anybody with a vintage horn, or at least anyone who called it that.

[Dave Dolson]

Skertz: It may be like the comment a Supreme Court Justice once made, "I can't define "vintage", but I know "vintage" when I see it" (well, a little change there).

My youngest "vintage" horn is a '62 MkVI alto. But for real vintage, I consider my 1920's and early '30's sopranos and altos (Conn, Buescher, and Selmer) to be VINTAGE. I'd think that a vintage horn is one no longer made, of acknowledged higher quality, and having older-designed keywork. I call them vintage and feel comfortable in doing so. DAVE

[Sigmund451]

Vintage sax player for sale.
Needs a good home with lots of nice horns.
Carries an extremely high price.
Demands considerable maintainence and attention.

[gerryr]

Pertinent to something other than wine the online dictionary I use has the following for vintage as an adjective:
1 - Characterized by excellence, maturity, and enduring appeal; classic.
2 - Old or outmoded.

So when someone is selling a vintage "so and so" sax they probably mean 1.

If they are selling a "vintage Selmer Mark VI" the term is used correctly, if they are sellling a "vintage Selmer Bundy II" they probably mean 1 but 2 would apply :wink: (I have an older Bundy II alto that I play occassionally - it does the job but it's a 2). The term vintage is probably used incorrectly most of the time.

[Phil Parker]

I've come across a couple websites selling vintage horns that actually give you the definition of a 'vintage' sax: 50 yrs

I think it's based on one's perception

[Media Lint]

There are those things which are vintage: the 1957 Ford Thunderbird, Chu Berry, a 1990 Echezeaux Domaine de Romanee Conti.

There are those things which are old: 1976 Ford Pinto, my Holton Alto, that case of beer that's been in your basement since 1990.

[Gordon (NZ)]

......maturity, and enduring appeal; classic.
.....
The buyer needs to be conscious that these terms CAN be highly euphemistic terms for "worn out" - not worth returning to full, reliable function.