Rating Eastlake horns in relation to other saxes

[Iddo]

Hi all,

I have a question that kind of delves deeper in the (highly subjective) field of rating Cleveland S20s vs. Eastlake S20s!
Here's what I wonder:

Many people say they actually prefer a Cleveland Super 20 to a Selmer MkVI. Of course, this is a matter of personale sound preference and taste, but obviously the two saxes are placed in the same category. Even though they are different, they can reasonably be compared to one another cause they are both absolutely top league.

Now, to many the Super 20's manufactured after the Eastlake move are generally considered to be of less quality than the earlier examples. What I am wondering, now, is to what extent this difference goes.

In other words, even when you feel and/or have experienced that Eastlake horns are in fact inferior than Clevelands, would you still rank them in a same class as the MkVI. Or is it more like a Mk7? And what about the SA80s?

E.g., when a person walks into a store as a person liking both Selmer and King styles (but maybe gravitating a bit towards the freeblowing quality of Kings), sees a top Cleveland S20 and a great SA80II, he would probably say the King is in a higher category. In a different store with again a SA80II, but this time side by side with an Eastlake, would that person be likely to instead go for the SA80II?(considering he play-tested it and finding it indeed is less full of character than a Clev S20)? Or is a 'lesser' Eastlake still better than a SA80II (taking generally here!)

Cosmetic inferorities can be disregarded here, I'm talking mostly soundwise.

Highly theoretical maybe, but let's see what you think.

[BariMelt]

I own a Cleveland Super 20 that is a solid player. I have played two Eastlake horns, one was just ok and the other was a monster, even better than my Cleveland. I think, like so many other horns, it just depends on the particular horn.
Both horns do take some getting use to ergonomics-wise. The Mark VI is easier to get around on when playing it for the first time in my opinion.

[blackfrancis]

+1 for BariMelt. You have to try the individual horn. The only things I might take exception to are placing the 20 and the VI in the same category and "ergonomic issues".
King and Selmer are different animals, and I've never had keywork issues with a 20, even when switching from a Selmer.

[shmuelyosef]

I used to own and play Super 20s, but was eventually seduced by the dark (Nippon) side and play mostly Yanagisawas now. The one King that I have kept is my 454xxx S20 tenor. About 3 years ago I set up my 3 S20 tenors at the time (a full pearl, a 38xxxx single socket and the Eastlake) with Roos, tightened everything, made some random mods for comfort, etc...for whatever reason, despite the fact that I wanted to like the Clevelands, the Eastlake remained my favorite and has survived the 'selloff'. My theory is that really nothing changed when they moved to Eastlake...these horns are basically identical right through SN 500xxx and more until the body change (no brazed toneholes). The biggest variation is amongst individuals, as there does seem to be high variability...not unlike Mk VIs, where the worst ones are dismal.