Holton/Courturier neck fitment

[bruce bailey]

This would apply to the Courturier (LaPorte) made Holtons, Lyon & Healy and stencil horns.
I was working on an alto that wasn't playing well on the low end and I suspected the neck wasn't fitting well. It was round enough but still showed signs of leakage. On these horns, the tightening screw on the body has the usual vertical slot AND a horizontal slot which makes it easier to tighten the screw BUT leaves quite a bit of area for leakage below the screw. It is a slot of about 10-12mm.
On horns with this style of tenon fitment, I would advise using cork grease or similar (trumpet tuning slide grease) to help fill in any voids on the neck sleeve. After doing this, the alto was back up to snuff!
Generally I don't advise using cork grease but for this it is best. Possibly an old tenor end plug could be used over the neck tenon for cleaner storage.

[soybean]

That's a good tip. Would it be possible to fill in the horizontal slot… with solder maybe?

[LaPorte]

I tried selmer tuning slide oil. The effect is great. Thank you, Bruce Bailey!:)

[bruce bailey]

I guess it could be soldered but the slot is so close to the top, I wouldn't risk it. That Selmer grease IS good to use. I am selling two of my L&H altos and was just trying to get one playing and stumbled on this.

[jazzbug1]

I am restoring a Land H Couturier C Melody, The "Inspiration" model. The neck receiver is very close to the bore of a Holton, so I expect a nice, robust sound. It is of very typical design, with good plating and signs of low use. If it sounds like a Holton, it will be a present for my son-in-law. I'll post a review soon.

[LaPorte]

I am restoring a Land H Couturier C Melody, The "Inspiration" model. The neck receiver is very close to the bore of a Holton, so I expect a nice, robust sound. It is of very typical design, with good plating and signs of low use. If it sounds like a Holton, it will be a present for my son-in-law. I'll post a review soon.

This is a rare find!

Does the engraving (within floral design) say:

Lyon&Healy
Inspiration
Chicago
U.S.A



and a serial number around 50,xxx?

or

a serial number near 12,xxx and an additional engraving under the
front-side joint ring, saying (very small):

EXCHANGED FOR
NEW BUESCHER
ELKHART/IND
2,xxx

I'm curious to know.
Thank you for information, Mr. jazzbug!

[jazzbug1]

Hello, Mr. LaPorte-- The back of the bell reads: C
11510
L
Tha front reads: Lyon and Healy (in script)
INSPIRATION
CHICAGO
USA
I am finishing it soon and will report on a "road test" Monday. Thank you again for all your endeavors into Holton and Couturier. jazzbug1

[jazzbug1]

Forgot to add: NO other lettering on horn. I have seen this "exchange" lettering a few times, as Buescher must have had a factory trade-in promotion in Elkhart and they were proud to mark forever the horns that former owners felt "inferior" to the Buescher. Personally, I find the small bore of the Bueschers of this era to have a brilliant top end, but lacking in the lower range. In my experience, Buescher and Selmer made small bore horns in the 20s and 30s. The Selmers are nicknamed "pea-shooters" and include the "cigar-cutter", Radio Special, and the Modele 22 and 26. Jimmy Dorsey and Andy Sannella favored these for their great top end, which was great on an alto, but lackluster in baritones and tenors. Johnny Hodges played a Buescher (listen to his glissandos and tone), but I am unaware of any great tenor players on these horns until the Balanced Action and the Buescher 400. Bug has spoken.

[LaPorte]

Hello, Mr. LaPorte-- The back of the bell reads: C
11510
L
Tha front reads: Lyon and Healy (in script)
INSPIRATION
CHICAGO
USA
jazzbug1

Your C melody is a real Couturier made saxophone from the factory in LaPorte made between Oct. and Dec. 1923. When fixed, you won't give it away!:)

[jazzbug1]

"Road test" on the Lyon and Healy (Couturier) C Melody saxophone using a Goldbeck mouthpiece, which I find to be the brightest of the 1920s-30s:
This horn sounds like my pre-Rudy Holton C melody. It has a mellow sound, with a focused tone. I am amazed at the intonation! Using a Korg tuner, it plays within FIVE cps on every note except middle D and high F, which are off by only 10 cps. This horn is remarkable for its intonation, compared with most 1920s horns. The plating is well-done, and the engraving is artistic. The ergonomics feel comfortable, and the bevelled toneholes seal beautifully. I notice that the bell is highly polished silver, not gold. The only other American company from the 20s that did not gold wash their bells was Holton.
The case looks like the Holton cases, except it lacks interior padding. Maybe there was a connection between the two companies at an early point. I already have a like-new burnished gold Holton and a superior-sounding Rudy C melody, so my son-in-law will have a fine Xmas gift, which he will treasure, and we can play duets.

[soybean]

Thanks for the report. I wonder if the intonation would be as good with a modern mpc.

[jazzbug1]

I find modern smaller chamber mouthpieces provide inferior intonation on 1920s horns. Likewise, a large chambered vintage mouthpiece usually does not work well on a modern horn. The one exception I have seen is the Keilworth, which sounds more like a Conn 10M than any other current horn. I'm sure this all has to do with the interior bore design, which is way beyond my expertise. The Goldbeck is a large chambered mouthpiece compared to modern design, but in the 20s, it was narrow, hence giving it a very lively sound compared to the typical very large chambered mouthpiece of the 20s. The Goldbeck is my choice for my Bb and C sopranos, baritone, alto, and C melody. I find the Goldbeck tenor to be of the "boat horn" variety and I tend to use an old Link on my Rudy tenor and my recently sold 10M Conn.