Play or Preserve my 1936 Buescher in pristine condition?

[DaBird]

Here's a poll as an outgrowth of my post on my recent Buescher Aristocrat Series I tenor, which is cosmetically very excellent. I recently bought it for $800, and haven't done anything with it yet...what should I do!?

See post 1 here (http://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?t=99951).

See post 2 here (http://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?p=1003888&posted=1#post1003888) (better pictures).

[monxen]

for me at least, an instrument is meant to be played! I would play it until it fell apart.-

if your a collector then the answer is obvious.

[potiphar]

It's a toughie. My vintage horns have earned their keep in the family and bear the scars One daters from '37 and the other was bought used in '36. I use them as working tools. But looking at how yours has been time-capsuled for 72 years I'd be tempted if not to mothball it, then to play it sparingly and not in public (except for the televised gigs!). The heritage issues are equivalent to owning an original Model-T. I think personally I'd probably buy a more run-of-the-mill TT, play the hell out of that, and keep the goodie for Sundays.

[Twombles62]

Well, If you're a player, you're going to get your enjoyment out of playing it, so that's what most on this site will say.

Some others will tell you to preserve the horn for the horn's sake... and the possibility that it may be the last pristine sax of that type.

Others will tell you to preserve it for yourself... that horn could be worth a massive sum (possibly 10k+ in 20+ years??)

[Captain Beeflat]

The answer is really very simple:-

a/ If you are a poseur, then place it on a stand in your sitting room under a spotlight.
b/ If you are a speculator then sell it to the highest bidder.
c/ If you are a player, then play it...but look after it.

In the final analysis it is a saxophone...saxophones are made to be played.

PS.
I have a very rare solid silver Big B which I play every day....and gig. In all probability it is worth much money, but it is still just a saxophone....played and enjoyed for it's gorgeous sound.

[HUTMO]

I was leaning towards playing it till the lacquer wears off and then I thought about it and figured there are plenty of these horns out there you can buy and play if that is what you want to do.

There's a chance this sax would not be a "player"...so why not preserve the condition that it is in? There are few saxophone museums but I am certain this would be a serious collector who will leave this horn in its original condition.



Perhaps the National Music museum?
http://www.usd.edu/smm/cutler6.html

Good luck
Hutmo

Hutmo

[DYB101]

Great question! And excellent answers.
I've been wondering the same about my Buescher straight soprano - it's in great shape, not a scratch or dent (but some mild pitting here & there).

Store it/sell it/play it...?

Dave:line6:

[Twombles62]

Play that! This tenor is in unplayed condition, with mint everything.

[saxphil]

Play it.
If you don't intend to play it
sell it to someone who will play it a lot.

Sorry, I don't get the collector,shrine,glass case,museum deal.

I am all for playing a very pretty horn ,
well setup and in fantastic condition though. :)

[hgiles]

I'd keep it, preserve it to sell later, but that's me. I don't get emotionally attached to inanimate objects. If you're a player then you can play something else that is more versatile. But I had an alto like that and it was a sweet playing horn.

That horn is certainly a beauty though!!

[kelp55]

I'm with the Captain on this one. If you want to play, like to play, you won't find a better instrument. If you need the money, sell it. By all means, if you keep it, insure the hell out of it, because it's worth a bundle. You can't see the worth in anything cool just by looking at it..... you have to use it to appreciate how cool it is. 30's Buescher, 57 Chevy, 59 Les Paul..... they were built, meant, to be used.

[DavidW]

If it plays as is and you like the sound, I would find another like it for daily use and play that one occasionally preserving it as much as possible.

I would probably sell it and buy 2 nice ones for playing though :)

[Baltimore B]

Get it checked out and set up to play. If you love it, play the heck out of it until all that shine is gone. If you don't like it sell it for a lot of money and get something that is worth it to you. There is allways a chance that it just isn't a really good one too (I've played some minty horns that just sucked, they're all different) and if that is the case, it belongs in a museum for future generations to admire through glass.

An instrument is just a tool to express yourself with. You won't know anything until it's ready to play.

[jicaino]

If it plays as is and you like the sound, I would find another like it for daily use and play that one occasionally preserving it as much as possible.

I would probably sell it and buy 2 nice ones for playing though :)
:?:?:?
so because it's too nice, and if it's also nice to play, you'd sell it and get 2 of them but not as nice? :shock: :shock: that's a no brainer in my book. :(

PLAY IT, KEEP IT, WEAR IT, DENT IT, ENJOY IT.

This horn in a collector's hands will be like locking a beautiful dazzling woman in a church so she can't be (enjoyed)... :TGNCHK:

[betelsax]

That's why I posted the picture of Cameron's father's coveted and never-driven Ferrari. Machines are made to be used.

That was really the point, not just of that scene, but of the whole movie. Life should be savored, not looked at from a safe distance.

Why would you be content to merely look at a machine when it can do so much more for you and for others?

Art hangs silently in galleries; your saxophone, as nice looking as it is, was made to make music. Someone should fulfill its intended purpose.

We are so sadly seduced and mislead by our eyes.

[DavyRay]

I think this decision depends on one thing: how much do you think you will enjoy playing this saxophone? If you believe that it will really give you joy to play it for years to come, then keep it.

The other perspective is financial. If you can sell it to a collector for enough money for you and your Dad to each buy a (slightly scratched) Buescher in great playing shape, well, that has lots of value as well. It sounds as if you two do not live very close, so sharing a single instrument could be a problem.

I do think this saxophone should go to someone who will really enjoy it. You could be that person, if you are sure about learning to play.

[hakukani]

The best violinists play their Strad's, Guenari's, Amati's. They're worth much more.

An instrument is no good unless it makes music.

[Dr G]

Play it - just, please, don't use it for marching band.

My instruments get played a lot and yet don't look thrashed. It is NOT a given that a horn that is well-used is also well-abused.

[JL]

An instrument is no good unless it makes music.

That says it all.

[PhineasC]

PLAY THE D&&N THANG!!!!

God brought musical instruments into this world to be played on and enjoyed. Think of is as a testimony of longevity. Putting a sax (or any instrument) in a box is an abomination!

Phineas

[Pete Thomas]

If it's a good horn, play it until the lacquer wears off. You could always get it relacquered and carry on playing until the second lacquer wears off.

Relacquering is not a big deal if it's done well, unless you want to start a museum.

Play it, that's what it was meant for.

[conn38]

Play it, enjoy it but look after it.

I bought a mint 1938 Conn 10m in 1988. It had hardly been used and had been under someones bed for 50 years. The lacquer was virtually unmarked with none missing in the usual places - octave key, thumb rest, pinky and palm keys. It had the original pads showing the final thin lacquer coat on the edge of the pads with no sign of any dings or repairs. Oher items that came with the sax included a unused Conn neckstrap, unopened Conn cork grease, lyre, three "REX" reeds and a mouthpiece.

In 1993 I sold my old 1936 well used 10m tranny and I have played the 1938 Conn on at least one gig each week since then plus practice sessions.
It is still umarked and showing very little wear on the lacquer but over the years I have had to replace some of the palm key pads and in 2006 the main stack down to D. I used shellac and Conn Res-O-Pads without marking the laqcuer.The four pads below D are the originals from 1938.
I've enjoyed playing this great horn and it still looks good.

[DavidW]

:?:?:?
so because it's too nice, and if it's also nice to play, you'd sell it and get 2 of them but not as nice? :shock: :shock: that's a no brainer in my book. :(

PLAY IT, KEEP IT, WEAR IT, DENT IT, ENJOY IT.

This horn in a collector's hands will be like locking a beautiful dazzling woman in a church so she can't be (enjoyed)... :TGNCHK:

You missed my point. Unless it plays like your dream sax, why not sell it to someone who greatly values the look/condition and buy a couple of players with the money? Would you rather have a decent/ok playing beautiful sax, or a couple of great playing good looking saxes? That seems like a no brainer to me (unless, as I said above, it plays like a dream for you)

I would much rather play a sax that already has a few dings and scratches than to be the one that caused them :)

[JL]

Unless it plays like your dream sax, why not sell it to someone who greatly values the look/condition and buy a couple of players with the money? Would you rather have a decent/ok playing beautiful sax, or a couple of great playing good looking saxes? :)

Obviously you wouldn't want to keep it if you didn't like how it played. I could be wrong but I think DaBird was couching this from the standpoint that he ends up liking how the horn plays. In any case the odds are very high that it will be a player. These were/are great horns and chances are he won't find a couple of other horns that are any better, at least not for less money.

A case could be made for getting top dollar for this horn and buying another one that is a player, but not so much a "looker," and save some money, but what a hassle and there's no guarantee another horn will play as good (assuming he likes it). He said he didn't need the money anyway. Plus, it's not like the lacquer will suddenly all peel off the first time he plays the horn. This sax will look great for a long time to come, with just a modicum of care.

I'm looking forward to a report on how DaBird likes playing the horn.

[jicaino]

not to mention that he'd be spending about 2x what he paid for the pristine one for a player horn just like that with dents and peeling finish.

He's just being a boring accountant and can't help but wondering how much this horn should fetch or how great a deal he got. Once he gets past that particular professional deviation, he'll enjoy his jewel of a horn and his numerical mind will stop preventing him for doing the right thing!

:badgrin:

[Rackety Sax]

If you want it preserved in its current state, see that it gets into a public museum of some sort. The only one I'm aware of is the Saxquest Museum (http://www.saxquest.com/news.asp), and I don't know if that's really a "museum" or just a display of privately owned horns.

[al9672]

Whats going to give you more enjoyment ?

Looking at it in a case or playing it/making it scream ?

Me I'd play it.

If its not making music , can it be called an instrument ?

[sax-ony]

He's just being a boring accountant and can't help but wondering how much this horn should fetch or how great a deal he got. Once he gets past that particular professional deviation, he'll enjoy his jewel of a horn and his numerical mind will stop preventing him for doing the right thing!

:badgrin:

I knew the accountant thing was at the bottom of this somehow. After all, he didn't just admit to being an accountant: he actually reminded us of it repeatedly. To my mind, that was even worse than repeatedly reminding us - in multiple threads for goodness' sake - what a great sax he's got and we haven't.

[brasscane]

If you treat the horn as a museum piece, it will last longer than you and end up in the hands of someone who decides to play it. Might as well be you.

I do agree with the other posters that it might be a good idea to get a second horn to play in settings where your horn might be at risk. I play with a jazz ensemble from time to time and the room where we practice is so small that I really do have to pay attention to keep my horn out of harms way (mainly guitar/bass necks). For those occasions, I don't bring a vintage horn.

[jicaino]

Just have a good clear coat of german automotive lacquer (Glassurit Basf Racing Clear 2 components lacquer is the finest! ) over the entire thing if you're so concerned about the damage, be done with the pondering and start the pounding!

[betelsax]

The sax player next to me in the high school concert band brought his grandfather's Mark VI tenor to every rehearsal for four years, 9th grade, tenth, eleventh and twelfth. It was a fine sax in mint condition, and the kid played it with gusto. No one ever mentioned how valuable it was or how much he could get for it.

[Baltimore B]

The sax player next to me in the high school concert band brought his grandfather's Mark VI tenor to every rehearsal for four years, 9th grade, tenth, eleventh and twelfth. It was a fine sax in mint condition, and the kid played it with gusto. No one ever mentioned how valuable it was or how much he could get for it.

Amen to that!

[glenlo]

I recently ...yesterday sold a tenor mark vi original laquer s/n 82xxx. Had played since I was fourteen... for 25 years... in bands then stopped for 15 years hadnt touched it till my son had a chance to see if he liked it. He didnt keep up and # years later I sold it felt bad but played it one more time.. without my good mouthpiece.... think my kid lost it... well I love it but the fellow who purchased it was a real good player and he basically hounded me from two states away. SOld it for 6g up from 4500 offers. You can always buy another horn... that would make you decide fast if you want it when you sell it. Im looking now for one that is a good player but not so much money

[DaBird]

not to mention that he'd be spending about 2x what he paid for the pristine one for a player horn just like that with dents and peeling finish.

He's just being a boring accountant and can't help but wondering how much this horn should fetch or how great a deal he got. Once he gets past that particular professional deviation, he'll enjoy his jewel of a horn and his numerical mind will stop preventing him for doing the right thing!

:badgrin:



I knew the accountant thing was at the bottom of this somehow. After all, he didn't just admit to being an accountant: he actually reminded us of it repeatedly. To my mind, that was even worse than repeatedly reminding us - in multiple threads for goodness' sake - what a great sax he's got and we haven't.



:) Hey, accountants are people too! My point in repeating that I was an accountant wasn't without purpose, however. I actually said I was a "boring accountant" several times (which is only half true).

When I was typing up my initial post, I was actually thinking of a Monty Python sketch called the Lion Tamer, in which an accountant wants desperately to change his career into something more exciting -- pretty funny (at least to me):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMOmB1q8W4Y&feature=PlayList&p=5AA1AC87D81AAC84&playnext=1&index=26


This was intended more as an acknowledgment of my relatively uncreative profession (in contrast with my past as a devoted sax player), and also as my "excuse" for not knowing anything about vintage horns (in spite of my past as a devoted sax player).


Also, I don't think my wondering what kind of deal we got has anything to do with being an accountant...everyone wants a deal, and when you find one, it's exciting to know you made a really good decision. When you buy an eBay horn, don't you do research to see if you're getting it at a great price? Just so happens that my research is only coming after the fact, since we had very little time to make a decision on this horn.

More than anything, I just want to know what I'm looking at. My first impression of the sax, based on the pictures in post #1, was "relacquer". I posted them believing that would be the concensus (again, due to my unfamiliarity with vintage horns). After that post, there were still doubts, so I posted again to provide clearer pictures for the purpose of getting a more certain understanding of what it is I have. If it was a relacquer, the dilemma of play vs. preserve wouldn't exist for me.

[sax-ony]

If it was a relacquer, the dilemma of play vs. preserve wouldn't exist for me.

Your latest photo on your other thread may have helped you out then. I've posted my impression of it there. ...And don't worry about the accountant thing - I was only joking an I'm sure jicaino was too!

[DaBird]

Your latest photo on your other thread may have helped you out then. I've posted my impression of it there. ...And don't worry about the accountant thing - I was only joking an I'm sure jicaino was too!

Yeah, I know :)

[jicaino]

I say relacquer just to tame you into playing the thing!

[Captain Beeflat]

I say relacquer just to tame you into playing the thing!

Spot on Juan.
Stop talking about it & start playing it. :)

[Bootman]

Just play it, these instruments where meant to be played and used. Enjoy having and performing with this instrument.

[Enviroguy]

I saxophone is meant to be played. Plus, a played sax should last a lifetime with proper care and maintenance.

Even the world's most ornate and beautiful sax is just "stuff" if not played. And your stuff just moves on to someone else when you die. But the music you play with a sax stays with the soul forever. ;)

[DaBird]

I say relacquer just to tame you into playing the thing!

Nice :)

[DaBird]

Well, it's still in another city with my dad who owns half of it. He doesn't play, but wants to learn. Quite the horn to learn with! I'll get my chance to actually pick it up in. January, and you bet I'll play it.

Since it's a share horn though, it; not entirely my decision what we ultimately do with it.

My personal view is that it should be played, but carefully in order to preserve it. And, I feel like I should keep my other sax as my everyday horn (Selmer Signet...not much I know). No reason to mistreat this beauty just because I can. Part of the joy of playing this one will be the uniqueness of it.

The other day, I pulled out my Selmer and played for a while. I have a 3 yr old and a 16 month old. They thought it was hilarious to run up when I wasn't looking and throw a half-eaten banana into the bell (no peel)! Had I been playing the Buescher...not as funny. Not to mention that the 3 yr old likes to have "his turn" to play. This alone may force the Buescher to remain a closet horn...albeit with me in there playing it :)

The other thing is that my dad (and mom) who found the thing and took initiative to buy it, believe it should be unplayed from what I know, although we haven't discussed it much yet. It's easier for them to think that, because the thing they can appreciate the most about the horn as non-players is that it's beautifully preserved and valuable. Neither of them would appreciate or even hear any difference if they picked it up and played it vs. some other horn. Their view is "why not play another horn", which I understand to a degree. However, as a player I would also understand/appreciate the tonal qualities and playability of the horn vs. others.